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Sliced Bread's picture
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Dolby Atmos Speakers

So with Dolby Atmos receivers just around the corner, I can't help but start to think about some speaker questions.

 

Would you be adding ceiling speakers?

 

If you are current;y using full sized speakers and you decide to add ceiling speakers, would you be investing in a smaller sub sat package to cut down on the space?

 

I'm really torn on this one.

 

 

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

I have installed an 11.1 system with front heights and wides but I am really dubious about installing ceiling speakers for Atmos. It feels like an expensive escapade really as I'll have to chase the cables up to the ceiling, as well as installing the speakers themselves. I'll be waiting to be truly convinced about this one.

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

Sliced Bread wrote:
So with Dolby Atmos receivers just around the corner, I can't help but start to think about some speaker questions.

Would you be adding ceiling speakers?

If you are current;y using full sized speakers and you decide to add ceiling speakers, would you be investing in a smaller sub sat package to cut down on the space?

I'm really torn on this one.

I don't think the size of the existing speakers would be much of an issue if the extra speakers being added were in-ceiling ones. The main issue for many people is having any more than 5.1 if the speakers are in-room.

I haven't really read much about it yet, but I'm guessing if they're adding Atmos to Blu-ray discs later in the year, then the quality of the Atmos format is identical to True HD/DTS-MA. Personally. I'd have been happier with higher quality audio over less channels (5.1/7.1).

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

VoodooDoctor wrote:

I have installed an 11.1 system with front heights and wides but I am really dubious about installing ceiling speakers for Atmos. It feels like an expensive escapade really as I'll have to chase the cables up to the ceiling, as well as installing the speakers themselves. I'll be waiting to be truly convinced about this one.

Good point with the cabling.

 

I might consider purpose built ceiling speakers, but I don't think I would do IN ceilings.  I imagine the sound would carry throughout the house, plus there'll be saucer sized holes

In the ceiling should I plan to move listening position / house.

 

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

David@FrankHarvey wrote:

Sliced Bread wrote:
So with Dolby Atmos receivers just around the corner, I can't help but start to think about some speaker questions.

Would you be adding ceiling speakers?

If you are current;y using full sized speakers and you decide to add ceiling speakers, would you be investing in a smaller sub sat package to cut down on the space?

I'm really torn on this one.

I don't think the size of the existing speakers would be much of an issue if the extra speakers being added were in-ceiling ones. The main issue for many people is having any more than 5.1 if the speakers are in-room.

I haven't really read much about it yet, but I'm guessing if they're adding Atmos to Blu-ray discs later in the year, then the quality of the Atmos format is identical to True HD/DTS-MA. Personally. I'd have been happier with higher quality audio over less channels (5.1/7.1).

That's an interesting point as I've actually not heard anything about the bitrate of Atmos.

 

It would be interesting to a/b Atmos and DTS-MA in a 5.1 configuration.

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

How is it going to sound? Most Blu rays are 5.1 ,7.1 so going all out and getting a receiver with 11:1 with added ceiling speakers is it not just overkill?

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

theflyingwasp wrote:

How is it going to sound? Most Blu rays are 5.1 ,7.1 so going all out and getting a receiver with 11:1 with added ceiling speakers is it not just overkill?

Future blu rays can be coded in Dolby Atmos. Brave was coded in Dolby Atmos for the cinemas, I can see a re-release with Dolby Atmos in blu-ray.

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

Looking at the pictures of Onkyo's speakers it looks like some manufacturers will be putting upward firing drivers on the other channels, presumably to us ceiling reflections as an alternative.  

 

I guess these speakers will have two separate sets of speaker inputs to keep the 'ceiling' channel discrete.

 

I also read on tinternet that Dolby has asked speaker manufacturers to come up with an upward firing speaker that can sit on top of their existing speakers.

 

It'll be Interesting to hear this approach as after all soundbars use reflections to fair effect.

 

Whether it will sound good or not is another matter.  Too many reflections may muddy the sound field, but fingers crossed that it works well. 

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

Until I get to hear a 2nd or 3rd gen Atmos set up I'm happy with my 7.1. Not much point in adding extra speakers if they aren't going to be Discreet channels. I'm guessing the will be though and a new Codec will be needed for movie mixes. I know Dolby EX is a Matrixed channel which kind of worked but was out classed my DTS ES with its 6th discreet channel now we have 7 discreet channel that if set up correctly do a wondeful job of giving overhead sound and all round sound.

I know it's about definition and having 2 surroundback channels is better than 1 or none for definition but the 11.1/11.2 amps never really took of and they don't seem to have created and 11.1/11.2 codec for discs or even in the cinema. I have front higt or front wide channels on my amp. I have never tried them so don't know if they would make much difference. Any of you guys use these channels? Is it really worht the extra speakers even though as far as I know there are no codecs to support them as discreet channels?

 

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

Glacialpath wrote:

Until I get to hear a 2nd or 3rd gen Atmos set up I'm happy with my 7.1. Not much point in adding extra speakers if they aren't going to be Discreet channels. I'm guessing the will be though and a new Codec will be needed for movie mixes. I know Dolby EX is a Matrixed channel which kind of worked but was out classed my DTS ES with its 6th discreet channel now we have 7 discreet channel that if set up correctly do a wondeful job of giving overhead sound and all round sound.

I know it's about definition and having 2 surroundback channels is better than 1 or none for definition but the 11.1/11.2 amps never really took of and they don't seem to have created and 11.1/11.2 codec for discs or even in the cinema. I have front higt or front wide channels on my amp. I have never tried them so don't know if they would make much difference. Any of you guys use these channels? Is it really worht the extra speakers even though as far as I know there are no codecs to support them as discreet channels?

 

I know what you mean, however in this case Atmos is producing discrete channels, except it does so on a different way to enable users to scale their systems.

 

The codec will be coming to blurays very soon.  We don't have a date, but it's indicated that it will be near the end of this year.

 

I agree with your comment on adding extra speakers though, as I guess a 7.1.4 system will mean dividing speaker budgets up even further.  So there may be more speakers, but for many of us they will have to be cheaper...in theory.

 

There is def a case to wait for 2nd / 3rd gen though.

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

You can get decent ceiling speakers for around £50 each. I don't see much point in spending a lot on them. What would 2nd & 3rd generation Atmos bring?

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

bigboss wrote:

You can get decent ceiling speakers for around £50 each. I don't see much point in spending a lot on them. What would 2nd & 3rd generation Atmos bring?

 I personally would buy speakers from the same package as the other speakers in the system otherwise you might subjectively subtract, rather than add to the sound stage.  Especially if panning effects are changing in sonic signture as they move around the room. 

 

I’ve owned 1st a later gen dd / dts receiver, plus 1st gen & later gen dts-ma receivers.  The later ones had better processing, in particular the post processing.  Not that there was anything wrong with the 1st gen ones…just the later receivers were an improvement.

 

I might still go 1st gen, but I will wait and have a listen first.

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

To me this is at the point of ridculous now and quite clearly a typical japanese bulk manufacturer spec race to have the logo on the box IMO

 

To have to renovate the home to get allow for a sound mode is crazy - even for me - for most adding acoustic treatment is too much - now adding speakers to the ceiling specifically for a mode of sound is quite an extreme expectation of the typical AV Receiver buyer 

I get effects on the ceiling now when its coded into the film - thinking of scenes in tron and pacific rim in particular.

I appreciate having more speakers is better in many ways - but it also causes issues at the same time - more sound waves bouncing around the room.  If you have the room for it then wonderful

 

Not one for me - I am with David would have preferred higher bit rate or something but I certainly dont knock anyone for going the whole hog with this idea

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

That's fair comment.

 

what about reflective speakers though?

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

Glacialpath wrote:
Until I get to hear a 2nd or 3rd gen Atmos set up I'm happy with my 7.1. Not much point in adding extra speakers if they aren't going to be Discreet channels. I'm guessing the will be though and a new Codec will be needed for movie mixes. I know Dolby EX is a Matrixed channel which kind of worked but was out classed my DTS ES with its 6th discreet channel now we have 7 discreet channel that if set up correctly do a wondeful job of giving overhead sound and all round sound.
I'm guessing they will be discreet channels, as the ceiling speakers are used along with existing speakers to place sounds vertically, just as you do with the existing five speakers on the horizontal plane.

Quote:
I know it's about definition and having 2 surroundback channels is better than 1 or none for definition but the 11.1/11.2 amps never really took of and they don't seem to have created and 11.1/11.2 codec for discs or even in the cinema. I have front higt or front wide channels on my amp. I have never tried them so don't know if they would make much difference. Any of you guys use these channels? Is it really worht the extra speakers even though as far as I know there are no codecs to support them as discreet channels?
There were never really many 11 channel power amps or receivers, and if there were, they were north of £3k. 

As there will be Atmos encoded Blurays later this year, the extra channels for Atmos will be utilised properly, unlike existing systems.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

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RE: Dolby Atmos Speakers

ellisdj wrote:
To me this is at the point of ridculous now and quite clearly a typical japanese bulk manufacturer spec race to have the logo on the box IMO

To have to renovate the home to get allow for a sound mode is crazy - even for me - for most adding acoustic treatment is too much - now adding speakers to the ceiling specifically for a mode of sound is quite an extreme expectation of the typical AV Receiver buyer 

I get effects on the ceiling now when its coded into the film - thinking of scenes in tron and pacific rim in particular.

I appreciate having more speakers is better in many ways - but it also causes issues at the same time - more sound waves bouncing around the room.  If you have the room for it then wonderful

Not one for me - I am with David would have preferred higher bit rate or something but I certainly dont knock anyone for going the whole hog with this idea

I'm actually warming to Atmos. When I last posted, I knew nothing of how many channels were required or how things would work. I have received some paperwork regarding this, so I'm understanding it a little better now, although there's still a lot of unanswered questions I have about exactly how it works.

As your existing 5.1/7.1 system stays exactly as is - and the extra speakers (either one pair or two pairs) added are purely (preferably) in-ceiling, it's not a huge system re-arrangement or upheaval, and you're not adding in boxes on the floor or walls that the other half will reject. I certainly feel this is a better and neater approach than the current 9.1/11.1 systems available.

What I don't see as successful, is the approach of adding "Atmos speakers" to a system to achieve the effect - adding in a box speaker that sits on top of your existing speakers. I appreciate this is trying to bring Atmos within the reach of anyone (particularly those that can't install in-ceiling speakers), but I can't see people adding these, as visually this won't appeal to people. I initially felt that Atmos would be more ideal for dedicated AV rooms, and I still believe that, but usuing in-ceiling speakers I can see this being an achievable goal for people in normal living rooms too. 

Looking forward to seeing what Yamaha have to announce regarding their CXA5000/MXA5000. It is already an 11 channel system with 11 channels of amplification - it should be an easy transition to add Atmos to it. I guess we won't be far off that announcement as they've already announced their integrated receivers.

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