Centre speakers....How big is Big?c
currently got my centre speaker which the B&W htm62 (i think) set too small on my amp. Vocals seem to lack a bit of volume. Was wondering if this should be set to large?
It is my understanding that "big" has less to do with physical size, than the frequency response of the speaker.
Here is what Arcam says:
"As a rule of thumb, if a speaker cannot reproduce a flat frequency response down to about 40 Hz (and very few can), it is better to consider them as Small for set up purposes of home cinema".
The above advice assumes that there is a sub to handle the low frequencies.
My rule is that if it's smaller than the front pair, regardless of what the manufacturer claims it to do, it should be set to small (assuming of course, the front pair are being set to large).
I tend to set all speakers to small anyway, regardless of their size - I'd set the Blades to small as well - but obviously I'd set e fairly low crossover point.
In your case Soopafly, we don't know which AV receiver you have, or how you currently have it set up. What crossover point are you using for it? Have you run an auto setup? If so, have you changed any settings since doing that? I usually tend to find adding 1dB to the centre brings it out nicely. Many auto setups tend to set it a tad low, in my opinion. This may be great for L/C/R blending, but some dialogue can be lost in action scenes.
I am experiencing the same with my center ( Mezzo 5 ) and receiver (AVR-1909) . While it blends quite well with the fronts , in some films the dialogue is just too quite to my liking. The Auto Set-up of Denon has set the Fronts`s Level to + 2,5 db , the rears to - 2 db , while the Center is set to Small + 1 db. Being not British-born , I need to hear the speech quite clearly, so I usually have to manually set the Center to + 7 or 8 dB to be able to hear nicely the dialogues. I am quite annoyed of having to do it all the time , and don`t know if it is right to keep the Center to such high level.
The last few days I`ve been thinking about Bi-Wiring ... Do you think this could make some improvement in the speech`s volume and clarity ... If so, this could be the case for " Soopafly49 " too....
Thanks for the help...
Don't forget that the overall 5.1 balance will vary from movie to movie. Over time, you'll get a feel for the best level for your centre speaker, although the occasional adjustment might still be needed.
Hi David,
I have a Yamaha RX-V3067, if i do the auto set up and then change my Centre from big to small will it nock the settings out of sync , Also , should i set all my speakers to small ?
Thanks for your help.
Yes I agree , and I got use to it actually ( to do adjustments of the Center`s level ) , but isn`t it a bit harmful for the speaker itself that it`s level is set to + 8 db at times ? How about bi-wiring the center ? Would that give it that extra power ? It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on that . Thanks a lot
Hi David
I have a Yamaha DSP-AX863SE,front L/R areLinn Komponent110,centre is the 106,basically the same speakers,output is the same.I don't have a sub/w so the bass goes through the front 2.If i set the the amp, bass to front 2 i can't change the fronts to small,i can if i set the bass to output to the fronts & a s/w,which i suspect is not the thing to do.
I can change the centre to small but not the fronts if set to output the bass.Cross over is at 90 when auto set up is run.I invariably end up changing the centre volume because of film soundtracks not breing clear.
The bluray is connected to the amp by hdmi as is the vision box & a hard disk recorder,then connected to the tv by hdmi from the amp.Any suggestions on improving sound from the centre appreciated,basic tv sound from any source is generally not a problem,sound from the tv tuners is from optical, tv to amp.
My rule is that if it's smaller than the front pair, regardless of what the manufacturer claims it to do, it should be set to small (assuming of course, the front pair are being set to large).
I tend to set all speakers to small anyway, regardless of their size - I'd set the Blades to small as well - but obviously I'd set e fairly low crossover point.
In your case Soopafly, we don't know which AV receiver you have, or how you currently have it set up. What crossover point are you using for it? Have you run an auto setup? If so, have you changed any settings since doing that? I usually tend to find adding 1dB to the centre brings it out nicely. Many auto setups tend to set it a tad low, in my opinion. This may be great for L/C/R blending, but some dialogue can be lost in action scenes.
I have a Yamaha RX-V3067, if i do the auto set up and then change my Centre from big to small will it nock the settings out of sync , Also , should i set all my speakers to small ?
Thanks for your help.
Sorry Chris, I didn't realise you'd replied. That's the main drawback of this site - you can't keep track of individual threads.
If you change a centre to small when the receiver has set it to large, it'll send the redundant frequencies to the front left and right speaker, if they're set to large or if they're set to a lower crossover point. Depending on settings,these speakers may already be producing these frequencies, and will already be EQ'd for them. It's not really something I've worried about in the past, and have never really run into issues with.
Pit doesn't really matter what the settings are for each speaker as long as its well balanced. Yes, if all your speakers are at -8 and your centre is at +9, then there could be problems. As long as it sounds well balanced, and there's no glaring anomalies when checked with a dB meter, everything should be fine. If you don't have a dB meter, if you go into the test tone and pass round all the speakers one after the other, of the centre sounds a lot louder than the other speakers, it might be worth starting from scratch. If it sounds similar, or only marginally louder, no problems.
I wouldn't worry too much about bi-wiring as bi-wiring gives subtle differences at best in most circumstances, and it won't affect power output. Only a more powerful amplifier will give your centre more power.
I have a Yamaha DSP-AX863SE,front L/R areLinn Komponent110,centre is the 106,basically the same speakers,output is the same.I don't have a sub/w so the bass goes through the front 2.If i set the the amp, bass to front 2 i can't change the fronts to small,i can if i set the bass to output to the fronts & a s/w,which i suspect is not the thing to do.
I can change the centre to small but not the fronts if set to output the bass.Cross over is at 90 when auto set up is run.I invariably end up changing the centre volume because of film soundtracks not breing clear.
The bluray is connected to the amp by hdmi as is the vision box & a hard disk recorder,then connected to the tv by hdmi from the amp.Any suggestions on improving sound from the centre appreciated,basic tv sound from any source is generally not a problem,sound from the tv tuners is from optical, tv to amp.
Hi Cliff
As your receiver is set to not include a sub, you won't be able to set the front left and right to small - there has to be some speakers to reproduce the lower bass. You will be able to set the centre to small as the receiver will pass those lower frequencies onto the front left and right, hence they have to be set to large. Setting the bass output to both sub and fronts isn't wise as the bass wold then be shared between them, and you're likely to miss out on some lower frequencies.
If your auto set up hasn't set the centre to your liking, feel free to add to it. As I've said many times, I add about 1dB to the centre speaker as a matter of course. You can add as much as you like to suit your preference, but adding too much will overpower surround effects and the subwoofer. The overall balance is personal, but you don't want to start too far from the auto setup.
Im not familiar with your speakers, but there's nothing you'll be able to do to vasylt improve your centre with any of the interconnecting cables for your source components. You can try upping the crossover for the centre (maybe try 110Hz, or 130Hz), which will ease the load on your centre, and with it producing less bass, it may sound clearer - results will depend on how good the speaker is and how it's been designed.
Technically, the centre should be set to small as its smaller than the front pair, but if you check the specs, they use the same drivers, so as far as volume and headroom are concerned, they're the same. The front left and right will reach deeper because of the extra cabinet volume, but that's not going to affect what the speaker can do as far as volume is concerned. Personally I'd set them both to small, at a crossover point of about 60 or 70Hz, and let the sub take some of the load. The 686's use the same size drivers, but only have a single bass driver, so they've not got the headroom that the 684's have. I'd set the to about 80 or 90Hz.
The higher the crossover point, the less excursion on the bass driver (travel), the further you can push them. Just don't take that recommendation to extremes, unless your receiver is up to it!
With Audyssey, it's worth doing a couple of auto setups, especially if you can save them to presets, as mainstream Audyssey can be a little inconsistent sometimes. If you can save them to memory, try doing three, then have a look at the differences between them! You can choose which you prefer, then tweak from there.
Hiya, David. Thanks a lot for that piece of advice. I won`t bother bi-wiring then. No,the rest of the speakers are not set to -8 -9..They are set in between 0 + 2,5 db. Only the rear left is set to -3 db as it is very close to my sitting position .
It is very interesting that you are advising Sopafly49 to set the fronts to Small. The 684 are quite big speakers as are my Mezzo 6. What would be the difference if we change from Large to Small... What is the logic in that. Thanks a lot once again
Hi Soopafly49,
Just to say then I experienced the same as you, so I read a lots about that and experienced an unumbered configurations.
Maybe this could help you: Movies are registred at 85 dB...much more then normal listening.
That mean you will have the good scale at this volume. Like that, you're surrounded by a field of sound like movie producer would like to give us. If you try to tested it, you will see than everything come in place: clear voice, soundstage, punch and for sure, angry neirbourgs!
All said, I don't thing that resolved your trouble!
Now, two ways of thinking:
1. THX. All speakers setting at 80 Hz crossover and the sub manage everything under 80 Hz.
2. Audyssey. Each speakers get a setting corresponding to their characteristic via a sound test through listening points. That based on time delay, individual speaker capacity and volume registred at listening points.
You could have more details on audyssey.com (good reading)
I know then setting are different on each receiver and not all of them had audyssey. So, if you does'nt have audyssey on your receiver, I suggest to set all speakers to small ( THX configuration ) where small mean 80 Hz crossover. And finally, increase yourself the center channel at your listening taste. Find movies with sound action surrounding ex: A vehicule passing through left to right must have the volume intensity in the center then left and right. Do it at your principal listening volume and fine tune the sub volume. must be good.
In my case (opinion), I prefer audyssey setting. By taking care of the speakers characteristics and the time delay, you get the best of the two worlds ( why spend money to expensive speakers to cut it's at 80 Hz ? ). Low frequencys are distributed all arround and the sub get less ''overloaded''. That give you more precision and reduced the muuuuddddyy bass!!! Again, you gonna have to adjust the center channel to your listening volume and some fine tunning and go!
Good luck with your setting,
Give me feed back if that help you.
I have a Yamaha amp & found some info in it a couple of days ago regarding large & small speaker settings.I was looking for answers.
It says that the speaker settings should be.
Small,below 6 1/2" .
Large, above 6 1/2"
Not saying this is a must do,just what the manual says.I've constantly played around with my settings,because sometimes the dialogue is not good,almost always on some film soundtracks including bluray.Normal TV broadcast sound is fine so i'm putting it down to poor film soundtrack,but it still has me playing around with the speakers.
C