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nugget2014's picture
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Centre speaker problem. voices just seem too quiet!

when i bought a centre speaker i assumed hearing voices would be a lot easier than without it and only using bookshelves, when i was playing films through laptop plugged in to my denon rcd-n8 for the sound i had to continiously change the volume but now even with proper home cinema i still have to adjust it maybe once or twice during the film

 

maybe its because the centre speaker is a bit low down as its level with my knees on the av desk (cant get it any higher im afraid) maybe its the sound mode of my av receiver (sony str-dn1040 currently set to HD-DSC (dynamic) previously had theatre or it could be something else. but i went through the options and i get my centre speaker to +10db and now the voices appeared to be a bit more louder

now that i +10 db the centre lots of other noises seem much louder..train crash from super 8 was so loud i had to turn it down..

unlikely but when i setup my av receiver and did the auto calibration i tried it about 5 times and all 5 times it had an error after playing saying the environment was too noisy and for me to do it when quiter..and there was no noise anywhere except the speakers! 

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What you are describing

What you are describing affects all of us.  Auto calibration should not be solely relied upon, its a good starting point and you can build on it from there.  Get yourself a sound pressure meter and set all channels to 75db, your sub to around 85db.  Then you will hear a more uniform sound.  

Your ears are the best listening device and there is no problem with the height of the channel.  Turn up the DB setting for the center by +1db at a time and see what you think Smile  I often find that I turn mine up in this fashion and run it a little hotter than most channels.

Give it a try and tell us what you think!

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i have a meter already. so if

i have a meter already. so if i run test tones again on my left speaker then turn up the db on it until it is 75, same with right speaker and centre? have no sub currently. 

nugget2014's picture
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trying to do it now on the

trying to do it now on the test tones even at 20 volume on my av receiver its picking up 47db from listening position. during a film the loudness would increase to like 85-90db! so how do i do this properly? because now im confused. unless you mean record the db level with meter right infront of speaker but that wouldnt make sense 

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Re: Center Speaker Problem

Hi there how are you?

Nice AVR you have there. May I ask why you haven't got surrounds yet or a subwoofer.

I'm guessing you've tole the amp you only have the front 3 channels connected? For playback you ideally want the amp on Direct not Dynamic or anyother DSP so that it decodes exactly what is on the disc or file.

What BD/DVD player are you using or did I read you were using a laptop? You have to make sure the source is outputting Bitstream which will allow the amp to do all the work. If you are only using 2.0 source audio, even if the amp forces dialogue to the center channel from one of the DSPs you won't get a proper Home Cinema experience.

Is the center speaker the same brand as you front left and right speakers? If not that will be some of your problem.

With the sound pressure meter you need to get it pointing straight up at about ear level for it to get the best reading. You can point it at each speaker from the same position also. And seeing as you don't have surrounds you don't have to worry about the back you your couch/seak getting in the way. If you do get surround/side speakers seing as you have 7.2 and at least 1 subwoofer (2 is better) then you will need to have the pressure meter at ear level but far enough away from the back of the couch so it doesn't get in the way of the sound waves being emitted fro the surround/rear speakers.

Check your wireing. This may sound silly but if there is any text on the speaker cable make sure it reads away from the amp terminals towards the speakers.. If you could try tilting the center speaker up towards you that might help a bit too.

I think because you don't have 7.1 or 5.1 speakers, the audio from the surround and rear channals is trying to come out the fronts. If the amp know's it only has the fronts and a center attached to it then it will downscale the surround channels into the fronts. Thats a lot of audio trying to get out and it will be fighting amongst itself for priority to get out the speaker first. 

If you want to watch your films and have clearer dialogue so you don't have to keep changing the volume then you need to get the rest of your surround set up. Other wise, no offence but you wasted your money getting a 7.2 AV Receiver.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get on. Any more help just shout.

Hi-Fi: Campridge audio D500 SE, DACMagic 1, C500, P500.. Monitor Audio BR1 speakers.

H-T: Pioneer; Kuro LX5090, BDP LX71, SC LX73. CA P500. SKY+HD. Rel Q50. Mordaunt Short Avant.

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As mentioned above.

As mentioned above.

Again - dont be too caught up with figures, these are only guides.  if you feel its too low raise it slightly or reduce etc.

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Glacialpath wrote:

Glacialpath wrote:

Hi there how are you?

Nice AVR you have there. May I ask why you haven't got surrounds yet or a subwoofer.

I'm guessing you've tole the amp you only have the front 3 channels connected? For playback you ideally want the amp on Direct not Dynamic or anyother DSP so that it decodes exactly what is on the disc or file.

What BD/DVD player are you using or did I read you were using a laptop? You have to make sure the source is outputting Bitstream which will allow the amp to do all the work. If you are only using 2.0 source audio, even if the amp forces dialogue to the center channel from one of the DSPs you won't get a proper Home Cinema experience.

Is the center speaker the same brand as you front left and right speakers? If not that will be some of your problem.

With the sound pressure meter you need to get it pointing straight up at about ear level for it to get the best reading. You can point it at each speaker from the same position also. And seeing as you don't have surrounds you don't have to worry about the back you your couch/seak getting in the way. If you do get surround/side speakers seing as you have 7.2 and at least 1 subwoofer (2 is better) then you will need to have the pressure meter at ear level but far enough away from the back of the couch so it doesn't get in the way of the sound waves being emitted fro the surround/rear speakers.

Check your wireing. This may sound silly but if there is any text on the speaker cable make sure it reads away from the amp terminals towards the speakers.. If you could try tilting the center speaker up towards you that might help a bit too.

I think because you don't have 7.1 or 5.1 speakers, the audio from the surround and rear channals is trying to come out the fronts. If the amp know's it only has the fronts and a center attached to it then it will downscale the surround channels into the fronts. Thats a lot of audio trying to get out and it will be fighting amongst itself for priority to get out the speaker first. 

If you want to watch your films and have clearer dialogue so you don't have to keep changing the volume then you need to get the rest of your surround set up. Other wise, no offence but you wasted your money getting a 7.2 AV Receiver.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get on. Any more help just shout.

 

hi

i dont have surrounds as i only want little satellites but these are quite expensive compared to little bookshelves like the tibo edge mini (£20!) i cant install them as i'm so useless at doing that stuff, took me an hour just to setup a stereo and 2 speakers before! plus if i got richer sounds to install i guess they'd charge £75-100 just for them 2 speakers..i'm getting a subwoofer soon. maybe in a few months either the svs pb1000 bk monolith or dali ikon sub mk2 (this looks the best and would match my system but at £700 may not be worth it when i could get mono) my fronts are all matched i have zensor 3 and vokal centre speaker. i am using the sony bdps-5200 sorry for confusion i used to use my laptop before i had home cinema but not anymore.

 

so what sound mode should i use? HD-DCS, PLII Movie, or neo 6 are the available movie ones

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What speakers are you using?

What speakers are you using? And are they set to small or large on the AV receiver?

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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David@FrankHarvey wrote:

David@FrankHarvey wrote:

What speakers are you using? And are they set to small or large on the AV receiver?

dali zensor 3, set to large as without a sub av wouldnt let me change to small even if i wanted to

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What are you using for

What are you using for playing movies?

It is little strange that you ask should you put you AVR on PLII movie or NEO:6.
Put your AVR on Auto and start a movie and if movie has DTS or DD sound - your AVR will automatically switch to that mode and decode those signals. During movie check on which mode is AVR - it shoud be on DTS or DD.

PLII movie is mode for simulating surround sound from stereo sources.

There is possibiliy that if you are using laptop for playing movies that your laptop is set to send stereo  signal to AVR which would mean that laptop is doing downmix to stereo and then you AVR is on PLII movie will again decode that signal from that stereo to simulate surround sound... In that proces you would lose some quality of the sound.

This is just posibility...

Edit: just saw that you are using Sony player... than laptop issue is out...

Just put AVR on auto and check during movie on what mode AVR is on... it should automatically switch to DTS or DD. if not than something is not ok in player settings.

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JohnKK wrote:

JohnKK wrote:

What are you using for playing movies?

It is little strange that you ask should you put you AVR on PLII movie or NEO:6.Put your AVR on Auto and start a movie and if movie has DTS or DD sound - your AVR will automatically switch to that mode and decode those signals. During movie check on which mode is AVR - it shoud be on DTS or DD.

PLII movie is mode for simulating surround sound from stereo sources.

There is possibiliy that if you are using laptop for playing movies that your laptop is set to send stereo  signal to AVR which would mean that laptop is doing downmix to stereo and then you AVR is on PLII movie will again decode that signal from that stereo to simulate surround sound... In that proces you would lose some quality of the sound.

This is just posibility...

Edit: just saw that you are using Sony player... than laptop issue is out...

Just put AVR on auto and check during movie on what mode AVR is on... it should automatically switch to DTS or DD. if not than something is not ok in player settings.

 

so you are saying i should use A.F.D Auto? "sound is output as it was recorded or encoded; no surround effects are enabled." i always used that for music not movies..so i should use that? doesnt make sense though. the description of HD-D.C.S reproduces the sound charecteristcs of a mastering studio. enjoy movies and music the way the audio engineers intended. telling me to use auto made me even more confused on what is best

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nugget2014 wrote:

nugget2014 wrote:

JohnKK wrote:

What are you using for playing movies?

It is little strange that you ask should you put you AVR on PLII movie or NEO:6.Put your AVR on Auto and start a movie and if movie has DTS or DD sound - your AVR will automatically switch to that mode and decode those signals. During movie check on which mode is AVR - it shoud be on DTS or DD.

PLII movie is mode for simulating surround sound from stereo sources.

There is possibiliy that if you are using laptop for playing movies that your laptop is set to send stereo  signal to AVR which would mean that laptop is doing downmix to stereo and then you AVR is on PLII movie will again decode that signal from that stereo to simulate surround sound... In that proces you would lose some quality of the sound.

This is just posibility...

Edit: just saw that you are using Sony player... than laptop issue is out...

Just put AVR on auto and check during movie on what mode AVR is on... it should automatically switch to DTS or DD. if not than something is not ok in player settings.

 

so you are saying i should use A.F.D Auto? "sound is output as it was recorded or encoded; no surround effects are enabled." i always used that for music not movies..so i should use that? doesnt make sense though. the description of HD-D.C.S reproduces the sound charecteristcs of a mastering studio. enjoy movies and music the way the audio engineers intended. telling me to use auto made me even more confused on what is best

No, A.F.D is for stereo.

This is different from AVR to AVR, I have Marantz and among other modes there is "Auto", and when receiver gets DD or DTS surround signal from source - it automatically switches to surround mode. I thought that all AVRs have that...

HD-D.C.S. is mode that only Sony has thats why I cannot help you better, but as there is only this D.C.S. and other are PLII - I think you should keep it on D.C.S. as this PLII are used to simulate surround from stereo inputs.

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nugget2014 wrote:

nugget2014 wrote:

so you are saying i should use A.F.D Auto? "sound is output as it was recorded or encoded; no surround effects are enabled." i always used that for music not movies..so i should use that? doesnt make sense though. the description of HD-D.C.S reproduces the sound charecteristcs of a mastering studio. enjoy movies and music the way the audio engineers intended. telling me to use auto made me even more confused on what is best

The HD-D.C.S is the setting you want when watching a DVD or BD. If you put a DVD on and you see PLIIx come up it's because the disc has Dolby Digital 5.1EX audio which means there is a fake surround back channel (6 + 7 of 7.1) mixed in the surrounds (4 + 5 of 5.1/7.1) That is the decoder that allows the amp to reproduce that encond correctly. I think it will only ise that though when you have surrounds and surround backs.

This diagram will help explain a little.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/

Don't worry the subwoofer doesn't have to be in the middle.

Regarding surrounds. In my opinion as you don't have any yet I would budget them in as well as a subwoofer. You can start spending big bucks on a sub and speakers once you have learn't more. No offence but when you bought your lovely AVR you probabley should have budgeted for a whole system. Now you have it though and you have some nice fronts and BD player you should finish the package off. I saw you were thinking of spending £700 on a sub. Why not use that for a sub and surrounds.

try these.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/subwoofers/wharfedale/powercube-spc-10/whar-diam-spc-10

http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/dali/fazon-mikro/dali-fazon-micro

Then use the rest of the money for mounting brackets (ask in store), speaker cable and subwoofer.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-cables/cambridge-audio/ultra-100/audi-ultra100-100mrl

http://www.richersounds.com/product/hi-fi-interconnects/cambridge-audio/aud100-7.5m/camb-aud100-7.5m

Hi-Fi: Campridge audio D500 SE, DACMagic 1, C500, P500.. Monitor Audio BR1 speakers.

H-T: Pioneer; Kuro LX5090, BDP LX71, SC LX73. CA P500. SKY+HD. Rel Q50. Mordaunt Short Avant.

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Glacialpath wrote:

Glacialpath wrote:

nugget2014 wrote:

so you are saying i should use A.F.D Auto? "sound is output as it was recorded or encoded; no surround effects are enabled." i always used that for music not movies..so i should use that? doesnt make sense though. the description of HD-D.C.S reproduces the sound charecteristcs of a mastering studio. enjoy movies and music the way the audio engineers intended. telling me to use auto made me even more confused on what is best

The HD-D.C.S is the setting you want when watching a DVD or BD. If you put a DVD on and you see PLIIx come up it's because the disc has Dolby Digital 5.1EX audio which means there is a fake surround back channel (6 + 7 of 7.1) mixed in the surrounds (4 + 5 of 5.1/7.1) That is the decoder that allows the amp to reproduce that encond correctly. I think it will only ise that though when you have surrounds and surround backs.

This diagram will help explain a little.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sou...

Don't worry the subwoofer doesn't have to be in the middle.

Regarding surrounds. In my opinion as you don't have any yet I would budget them in as well as a subwoofer. You can start spending big bucks on a sub and speakers once you have learn't more. No offence but when you bought your lovely AVR you probabley should have budgeted for a whole system. Now you have it though and you have some nice fronts and BD player you should finish the package off. I saw you were thinking of spending £700 on a sub. Why not use that for a sub and surrounds.

try these.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/subwoofers/wharfedale/powercube-spc-...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/dali/fazon-mikro...

Then use the rest of the money for mounting brackets (ask in store), speaker cable and subwoofer.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-cables/cambridge-audio/ultra...

http://www.richersounds.com/product/hi-fi-interconnects/cambridge-audio/...

 

thanks for the info. regarding the sub i think i'll get a bk monolith and the cambridge audio minx min11 as the satellites.

in a year or so when funds allow i'll upgrade my zensor 3's to the monitor audio bronze bx6 (demo'd them today along with the ikon 6 mk'2s) and they was amazing! not much difference to my ears between them and the ikons which were £350 more expensive. brian said i could buy a open box pair of bx6 to demo them at home to see if i still like the sound in own home. although i thought i would have to change centre speaker and he said it's better than the bronze centre and i can use it with the MA speakers..which seems odd as i thought fronts and centres had to match tonally. although im sure he has knowledge to give as he works in richer sounds! would be easier for me then as wont have to sell centre

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