1080p 24 frame blu ray output a through AV reciever - Question
Hi
A 1080p 24hz/frame resolution output from Samsung blu - ray player input into a Onkyo reciever (N3007 model) which is set to "auto" HDMI resolution output, gives a 1080p 60hz output, when checking status on TV screen (Onkyo reciever displays its sound and display setting on the TV screen).
Is this correct / best setting.
I can force the output (status) to say 1080p 24hz if I select "through" rather than "auto" in HDMI output settings. If I do this my Philips 21:9 56PFL9954 TV displays 1080p 24hz correctly. Onkyo recievers status displays 1080p 24hz input and 1080p 24hz output on the TV screen over the movie being watched.
I would have thought that the receiver's "Auto" HDMI output resolution setting would have passed the 1080p 24hz through to the TV. Auto is suppose to automaticly set best resolution for TV (/ convert video resolutions to ones which TV supports), so why is 1080p 24hz from Blu-ray players (same with samsung & Panasonic players) changed to 1080p 60hz or is that correct (better).
Regards
Stuart
More sage advice from the man who's not in the industry but works next door to a hi-fi shop and thus knows that most manufacturers have no idea what they're doing...
So whats the best settings to view blu-rays on a 1080p24fps tv?? Direct mode or 3:2 pulldown?? It's all very confusing.....
shadiest.tripod:The whole 24fps thing is another load of marketing rubbish, the auto mode on the amp is making the right decision.
24fps was pushed big time by Pioneer and the the Bluray Group on the basis that films are shot at 24fps. Well that maybe true if the movie is actually shot on "film", but many are shot digitally nowadays and besides the human eye reacts VERY differently to 24 frames of celluloid rolling compared to 24 frames of electronically produced images!!!
Some the most respected engineers from Pioneer and Fujitsu (both made stunning TVs before packing up due to the market being driven by cost over quality) would STRONGLY not recommend running in 24fps even though their sets supported it!!
Sadly a lot of people (and publications) fell for the marketing hype, but consider this:
In the video game industry over 10 YEARS AGO they found running games at 30 fps was insufficient for motion handling and most strove for 60 fps (even if the tv hardware had to reign it back). 24 fps in that industry would be classed as a bad joke!
Utter rubbish
The amp converting to 60fps adds extra processing that isnt required. HOWEVER, if the tv is bad at playing 24fps material (It shouldnt be, but all tvs have thier quirks) then converting 'may' be advisable
Pioneer have made tvs that run at 72Hz to play 24fps material
30fps can be good enough for a lot of games, really depends on the game. Though I do agree, id much rather have a movie/bluray standard of 100hz or better
Stuartc2uk:Hi
A 1080p 24hz/frame resolution output from Samsung blu - ray player input into a Onkyo reciever (N3007 model) which is set to "auto" HDMI resolution output, gives a 1080p 60hz output, when checking status on TV screen (Onkyo reciever displays its sound and display setting on the TV screen).
Is this correct / best setting.
I can force the output (status) to say 1080p 24hz if I select "through" rather than "auto" in HDMI output settings. If I do this my Philips 21:9 56PFL9954 TV displays 1080p 24hz correctly. Onkyo recievers status displays 1080p 24hz input and 1080p 24hz output on the TV screen over the movie being watched.
I would have thought that the receiver's "Auto" HDMI output resolution setting would have passed the 1080p 24hz through to the TV. Auto is suppose to automaticly set best resolution for TV (/ convert video resolutions to ones which TV supports), so why is 1080p 24hz from Blu-ray players (same with samsung & Panasonic players) changed to 1080p 60hz or is that correct (better).
Regards
Stuart
You don't have to 'force' the output. Blu-ray films are generally 1080p/24 and will display that way if you set your player to 'auto' (providing your TV is capable of displaying the material at 24 fps). DVDs are generally 30fps. no point in forcing that to play at 24fps.
Hi
Yes- sorry wrong words - I am not forcing the blu player to output 24 frame (it's done automaticly - when playing a 24frame disc/movie) but I am (if I want to) having to force Onkyo reciever (via the "through" or "1080p-24frame" HDMI resolution out selection) to output 24hz/frame rather than 1080p-60hz which is output when set to "auto" resolution HDMI output.
Both setting produce a picture but which is better who knows.
Regards
Stuart
Generally speaking, in most cases the source will upscale better than the amp or tv
So id recommend putting the amp into 'through' mode and letting the source do whatever processing is required. Having the amp change a 24Hz source to 60Hz will almost certainly lose some detail in the process. Whether or not you could tell in your setup is another thing entirely.
If you see anything dodgy happening (artifacting or the like), then experiment to see what you feel is best in your set up (for example, dont have the dvd/bluray doing any processing, let the amp do it)
My understanding of the Denon 2500 BT that I have is - set it to 1080/24 if the player detects this signal then it will output the 24fps, if it does not it will output at the next level down 60 fps.
3:2 pulldown is irrelevant here in the UK. It's used in the USA to transfer from 24 fps to 30 fps by adding duplicate fields in a predetermined sequence: frame 1 becomes 2 fields - frame 2 becomes 3 fields - frame 3 becomes 2 fields - frame 4 becomes 3 fields and so on.
If your source is 24fps, keep everything 24 fps and totally ignore the ill-informed and incorrect utter nonsense posted by shadiest.tripod - material shot 'digitally' for release in cinemas is still shot 24fps usually at 4K onto red cam or viper, and is progressive (i.e. 24 discrete frames per second) just as 35mm film is. Movies may well be shot on 35mm film, but even that will be scanned into either 4K or 8K DPX or Cineon files as soon possible and the neg is then put into storage. All the grading and effects work is done on those files. The final cut will then either be supplied on datapacks or optical data discs for digital cinemas, transferred to HDCamSR tape for bluray authoring or television use, and finally laser scanned back onto film for normal theatrical use.
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The whole 24fps thing is another load of marketing rubbish, the auto mode on the amp is making the right decision.
24fps was pushed big time by Pioneer and the the Bluray Group on the basis that films are shot at 24fps. Well that maybe true if the movie is actually shot on "film", but many are shot digitally nowadays and besides the human eye reacts VERY differently to 24 frames of celluloid rolling compared to 24 frames of electronically produced images!!!
Some the most respected engineers from Pioneer and Fujitsu (both made stunning TVs before packing up due to the market being driven by cost over quality) would STRONGLY not recommend running in 24fps even though their sets supported it!!
Sadly a lot of people (and publications) fell for the marketing hype, but consider this:
In the video game industry over 10 YEARS AGO they found running games at 30 fps was insufficient for motion handling and most strove for 60 fps (even if the tv hardware had to reign it back). 24 fps in that industry would be classed as a bad joke!
PLUS your amp and TV REALLY deserve better than a Samsung Bluray!!!!!!!! I wouldn't insult the amp/tv with BD decks from Samsung/Sony/LG/Panasonic/Samsung etc
Consider something like a Onkyo BD807/808 (£500 ish), a Denon DVD2500BD, Philips 9000 Series deck or the new Anthem!