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Thompsonuxb wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

Lol.... I missed this one.....

Did you read it?

You put your faith in internet articles.

When coke and Pepsi taste so different?

You crack me up

you are aware you're replying to your own reply now right? 

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Good point Robin,

Good point Robin,

You see this I understand - we can be fooled but we also accommodate instinctively.

2 boxes producing a 3d soundstage - a flat screen producing a 3d image (remember the old 3d cards back in the day)

Like I said, you're crossing a road you see a bus coming towards you ......

we adjust.....

RobinKidderminster wrote:

Optical illusions and sound illusions - guess some can see through them. As usual this thread has lost reason. Our senses are easily fooled - it is only within the context of listening to music where opinion is divided.

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Best thing about Hifi -

Best thing about Hifi - Cables

Worst thing about Hifi - Cables.

Edit. Oops, seem to have taken a wrong turn. Fool

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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Oh I thought I had quoted

Oh I thought I had quoted your response Cheesboy

No worry's......

These summer holidays having to spend time with the kids...... bear with me.

cheeseboy wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

Lol.... I missed this one.....

Did you read it?

You put your faith in internet articles.

When coke and Pepsi taste so different?

You crack me up

you are aware you're replying to your own reply now right? 

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Behaive Dave.....

Behaive Dave.....

Having a clue is over rated anyway.

davedotco wrote:

cheeseboy wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

I swear....... I don't know if you are being serious or just doing that fake hissyfit thing for comic affect.

But it made me chuckle.

Sorry, I will not indulge you........lol

No need to, I think you've just proven my point as to how full of rubbish you are, thank you Smile

Don't take him too seriously cheeseboy, think of him as a kind of unruly pet, like my cross siamese in the picture.

Hugely entertaining, quite bright in an odd sort of way but, when push comes to shove, hasn't got a clue.

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I think I recall this tale...

I think I recall this tale.... Lol

If I recall I suggested you had fallen victim to peer pressure ( a need to fit in as opposed to telling the truth)

You did what most New starters would have done.

Probably nothing to do with what you heard.

If that's a lie, I must have dreamt it, but that's what I would have told you anyway.

andyjm wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

I have to admit Robin unless drugged or highly stressed I struggle with that view that we are so easily fooled on a day to day basis.

We are our brain.

Something as simple as listening to music reproduction.

I dunno.

I have told this story a number of times, but for those who haven't read it yet:

As a newly minted EE graduate in my early 20s, I joined the research and designs group of a well known broadcaster.  In the lab next to me, a bunch of guys were working on loudspeaker evaluation.  Knowing I was interested in HiFi, they volunteered to demonstrate the various test speakers they had been working on.  They took me through a demonstration, changing the speakers and explaining the faults and attributes of each speaker in turn.  I felt pretty good, I could follow their description, and clearly hear all the points that they described.  Except they never changed the speaker, it was always the same one. 

It was a good lesson.  Your senses are easily fooled.  Never trust your ears.

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Thompsonuxb wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

Behaive Dave.....

Having a clue is over rated anyway.

davedotco wrote:

cheeseboy wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

I swear....... I don't know if you are being serious or just doing that fake hissyfit thing for comic affect.

But it made me chuckle.

Sorry, I will not indulge you........lol

No need to, I think you've just proven my point as to how full of rubbish you are, thank you Smile

Don't take him too seriously cheeseboy, think of him as a kind of unruly pet, like my cross siamese in the picture.

Hugely entertaining, quite bright in an odd sort of way but, when push comes to shove, hasn't got a clue.

I was talking about my cat. 

Anyway, she is great at blind tests. She can tell the chicken munchies (likes) from the beef munchies (doesn't like) even if I make sure she doesn't see the packs.

Unlike most on here she has taken a blind test and passed with flying colours...... Dance 4

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I see what you did there. ...

I see what you did there. ....... ok.... I had a real good retort for you aswell.

davedotco wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

Behaive Dave.....

Having a clue is over rated anyway.

davedotco wrote:

cheeseboy wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

I swear....... I don't know if you are being serious or just doing that fake hissyfit thing for comic affect.

But it made me chuckle.

Sorry, I will not indulge you........lol

No need to, I think you've just proven my point as to how full of rubbish you are, thank you Smile

Don't take him too seriously cheeseboy, think of him as a kind of unruly pet, like my cross siamese in the picture.

Hugely entertaining, quite bright in an odd sort of way but, when push comes to shove, hasn't got a clue.

I was talking about my cat. 

Anyway, she is great at blind tests. She can tell the chicken munchies (likes) from the beef munchies (doesn't like) even if I make sure she doesn't see the packs.

Unlike most on here she has taken a blind test and passed with flying colours......*dance4*

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I thought this was a new

I thought this was a new thread and got a bad case of deja vu!

Actually it's much more interesting now the "coke" theme has emerged.  I'm a great lover of Diet Coke and am prety certain I can tell it apart from any other Coke.  As for Pepsi that is completely different.  Suggestion bias - what nonsense! 

Chris  smiley

Marantz PM8005 / SA8005 / KEF R700s / AKG K702

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Covenanter wrote:

Covenanter wrote:

I thought this was a new thread and got a bad case of deja vu!

Actually it's much more interesting now the "coke" theme has emerged.  I'm a great lover of Diet Coke and am prety certain I can tell it apart from any other Coke.  As for Pepsi that is completely different.  Suggestion bias - what nonsense! 

Chris 

I don't drink coke or any of its variants but I have taken part in blind wine tasting.

Not remotely surprised that I could barely tell one from another (when testing from the same region) but very surprised to see supposed experts floundering around trying to tell Premier Cru from last years house Claret.

I do recall a blind test of american whiskies once upon a time. Can't remember the results though....... Unknw  Biggrin

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davedotco wrote:

davedotco wrote:

Covenanter wrote:

I thought this was a new thread and got a bad case of deja vu!

Actually it's much more interesting now the "coke" theme has emerged.  I'm a great lover of Diet Coke and am prety certain I can tell it apart from any other Coke.  As for Pepsi that is completely different.  Suggestion bias - what nonsense! 

Chris 

I don't drink coke or any of its variants but I have taken part in blind wine tasting.

Not remotely surprised that I could barely tell one from another (when testing from the same region) but very surprised to see supposed experts floundering around trying to tell Premier Cru from last years house Claret.

I do recall a blind test of american whiskies once upon a time. Can't remember the results though.......*unknw*  Biggrin

I take part in quite a lot of blind tastings of wine. I seem to have a mental block about some wines, but there are others that I find dead easy to pick, whether because they have a strong signature (Sauvignon blanc) or because I know a lot about them (German Riesling). 

I know there have been some widely publicized cases of wine experts being duped in blind tastings (usually because they were being fed deliberately misleading information) and even the best tasters can get things wrong, but blind wine tasting really is something that can be learnt. There is, after all, a qualification (the Master of Wine degree) that contains practical exams in blind tasting. The MW is very demanding, has a strong international reputation and is audited to exacting standards.

The practical papers look like this: http://www.mastersofwine.org/en/education/the-mw-examination/the-practical-papers.cfm. If you don't pass them, you don't get the qualification.

Matt

This train … carries saints and sinners / This train … carries losers and winners / This train … carries whores and gamblers / This train … carries lost souls.

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Rethep wrote:

Rethep wrote:

To me biwire is like 'buy more wire'.

Buy 4 mm2 thick copper wire, connect, sit back and enjoy the music!

Every other thing you don't like is a mismatch in your system or acoustics. Furthermore nothing is perfect!

Again!

If you listen long enough you can hear the difference between two exact the same things!

Example:

One evening i think my system sounds nearly perfect! I am totally taken by the music. Then again, i was in a very good mood too. The other evening with the same system and music, i think that it could sound much better, with another component. This time e.g. i got home from work very tired, thinking about all the workmails i have to answer the next day. So some psychological feelings (attention) is of big  influence!

My advice again: sit back, listen, and enjoy!

Airport Express (still analog!), Artephonos Energa (tube-amp), Peitho 303 (infinite baffle speakers)

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matt49 wrote:

matt49 wrote:

I take part in quite a lot of blind tastings of wine. I seem to have a mental block about some wines, but there are others that I find dead easy to pick, whether because they have a strong signature (Sauvignon blanc) or because I know a lot about them (German Riesling). 

I know there have been some widely publicized cases of wine experts being duped in blind tastings (usually because they were being fed deliberately misleading information) and even the best tasters can get things wrong, but blind wine tasting really is something that can be learnt. There is, after all, a qualification (the Master of Wine degree) that contains practical exams in blind tasting. The MW is very demanding, has a strong international reputation and is audited to exacting standards.

The practical papers look like this:  http://www.mastersofwine.org/en/education/the-mw-examination/the-practic...If you don't pass them, you don't get the qualification.

Matt

I'd disagree about the wine thing.  There's been a lot of studies done (a nice concise roundup here http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis ) that basically shows that wine tasting is just as subjective as anything else, and the tasters can be fooled very easily.  The one where they put red dye in white wine and all of a sudden the tasters are coming out with completely different tastes, even though it's exactly the same wine, speaks volumes I feel. (taken from the article above)

"Colour affects our perceptions too. In 2001 Frédérick Brochet of the University of Bordeaux asked 54 wine experts to test two glasses of wine – one red, one white. Using the typical language of tasters, the panel described the red as "jammy' and commented on its crushed red fruit.

The critics failed to spot that both wines were from the same bottle. The only difference was that one had been coloured red with a flavourless dye."

If you like the taste of the wine, drink it and enjoy it, that's what I say Smile 

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cheeseboy wrote:

cheeseboy wrote:

matt49 wrote:

I take part in quite a lot of blind tastings of wine. I seem to have a mental block about some wines, but there are others that I find dead easy to pick, whether because they have a strong signature (Sauvignon blanc) or because I know a lot about them (German Riesling). 

I know there have been some widely publicized cases of wine experts being duped in blind tastings (usually because they were being fed deliberately misleading information) and even the best tasters can get things wrong, but blind wine tasting really is something that can be learnt. There is, after all, a qualification (the Master of Wine degree) that contains practical exams in blind tasting. The MW is very demanding, has a strong international reputation and is audited to exacting standards.

The practical papers look like this:  http://www.mastersofwine.org/en/education/the-mw-examination/the-practic...If you don't pass them, you don't get the qualification.

Matt

I'd disagree about the wine thing.  There's been a lot of studies done (a nice concise roundup here http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-sc... ) that basically shows that wine tasting is just as subjective as anything else, and the tasters can be fooled very easily.  The one where they put red dye in white wine and all of a sudden the tasters are coming out with completely different tastes, even though it's exactly the same wine, speaks volumes I feel. (taken from the article above)

"Colour affects our perceptions too. In 2001 Frédérick Brochet of the University of Bordeaux asked 54 wine experts to test two glasses of wine – one red, one white. Using the typical language of tasters, the panel described the red as "jammy' and commented on its crushed red fruit.

The critics failed to spot that both wines were from the same bottle. The only difference was that one had been coloured red with a flavourless dye."

If you like the taste of the wine, drink it and enjoy it, that's what I say Smile 

Yes, but see my post above, especially the bit where I talk about people being confused by "being fed deliberately misleading information". The test with the dye is an extreme situation and not a fair blind test. Wine tasters take blind tests in good faith and assume they're not being deliberately tricked. If they'd been told "we may have dyed one of the white wines so that you think it's red", the results would have been quite different.

The "scientific" vs "subjective" thing in the Guardian article addresses a different point from the one I was making. My question was: can you improve your ability to identify wine correctly in blind tastings? The evidence is very clear: you can. (In fact, some of the comments in the article make precisely this point, e.g. where it says that trained experts were better than laymen at identifying expensive wines.)

This train … carries saints and sinners / This train … carries losers and winners / This train … carries whores and gamblers / This train … carries lost souls.

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I love the wine 'experts'

I love the wine 'experts' (read middle-class lushes) that they drag onto food & drink programmes (once they've been sobred up a bit backstage).

All those references to the smells of hot tar, baby wipes, oak, wet labradors (after a walk in Tuscan rain of course), custard, bonfires etc. are pure comedy gold.  (Only bettered by those episodes dedicated to 'cooking on a budget' where we are told that truffle slivers really perk up scrambled eggs!)

This series has all you need to know about food and drink.

It's all b#####ks anyway.   

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