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hifikrazy wrote:

hifikrazy wrote:

And I thought the one good of the site redesign was to get rid of this bunch of *censored*, which has at least made this forum a lot more pleasant lately. But alas, no.... It only takes one post about cables to get them crawling out of the sewers again.

Ahh, the reasoned argument to put it all to bed...

If you scroll through the thread, I spent some time trying to explain why the claims made about replacing jumper plates with cables was nonsense.  Equally, the suggestions about how to plug speaker cables into the speaker connections were equally daft.  

The best response anyone had was to 'trust your ears'

It is unfortunate when a  website dedicated to a technical pursuit decends into mystical beliefs to justify human subjective perception.  

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hifikrazy wrote:

hifikrazy wrote:

And I thought the one good of the site redesign was to get rid of this bunch of *censored*, which has at least made this forum a lot more pleasant lately. But alas, no.... It only takes one post about cables to get them crawling out of the sewers again.

Bye

Hi-Fi - Yamaha RX-V667 > AVI DM5

Head-Fi - Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable - Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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SiUK wrote:

SiUK wrote:

Quote:
of course, a paper funded and written by a company that supports their sales is not going to be biased in the slightest is it?

If that doesn't sum up the idiom, 'throw out the baby with the bath water' (for andyjm, there's a Wikipedia page for that I think) I don't know what does!

Really? Are some of you here so myopic you willing choose to elliminate anything that doesn't exactly fit in with your own limited (from what I have read here) knowledge? Wow! Are you really that arrogant? Talk about 'dark age' thinking! You could hardly consider that a proper scientific approach.

I suppose if I'd worded my post more carefully I may have avoided (probably not) the fundamentalists jumping in with their ridiculing nonsensical explanations...if you can call them explanations. So perhaps it is actually my fault for not being more explicit. I should probably have asked for contributions from open minded people ...you know, ones that don't start with an insult, and then link to a wikipedia page at the end of almost every reply.

Anyhow, pointless to continue this amongst such esteemed company so please feel free to have the last vapid word.

Ironic post of the week!

I'm guessing, from the lack of any reasoned argument in your post, that you might be in the 'cables are the best form of EQ' camp.

 

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hifikrazy wrote:

hifikrazy wrote:

And I thought the one good of the site redesign was to get rid of this bunch of *censored*, which has at least made this forum a lot more pleasant lately. But alas, no.... It only takes one post about cables to get them crawling out of the sewers again.

You come across as a really unpleasant person. You would have fiitted in pretty well with the Spanish inquisition, they burnt people that didn't agree with their way of thinking as far as I recall.

Hey ho, takes all sorts to make a world.

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Welcome, Latinaudio. I for

Welcome, Latinaudio. I for one am happy your changes made the difference you wanted, even if it is hard to rationalise. 

There was recently an interesting TV programme about placebo drug trials where, untypically, the recipients were told they were getting the placebo, but they still reported 'cures' in some cases. Amazing but true!

 

Krell CD and amp, Michell/Rega/Grado record player, Hitachi and Sony tuners, Nakamichi cassette, SBT streamer, Sonus faber spkrs.  Sony and Samsung BDP & TVs. Qobuz > iPad > AudioPro Allroom Air One

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nopiano wrote:

nopiano wrote:

Welcome, Latinaudio. I for one am happy your changes made the difference you wanted, even if it is hard to rationalise. 

There was recently an interesting TV programme about placebo drug trials where, untypically, the recipients were told they were getting the placebo, but they still reported 'cures' in some cases. Amazing but true!

The mind is a seriously strange thing and it affects hi-fi more than you may imagine. For example....

Over the years I have always followed the 'audiophile rule' of having both speaker cables the same length.

I was always convinced that if this was not the case the soundstage would slip to one side, in my setup the equipment was to one side, so 3m to the near speaker and 6m to the far. The image was always skewed to one side, changing to two 6m lengths solved everything.

These beliefs were challenged by a colleague who set up a blind test, using 3m and 7m cables. I could hear no difference whatsoever. This was repeated a number of times until I was totally convinced that it made no difference.

I took home the cables we used in the tests, using uneven lengths the soundstage was, as usual, skewed to one side, same length cables, absolutely fine.

So, despite it being 'proved' that the length makes no difference, if I know there is a difference in length I hear a problem, so, although I know it is nonsense, I will always use speaker cables thart are the same length..... Unknw

 

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pauln wrote:

pauln wrote:

hifikrazy wrote:

And I thought the one good of the site redesign was to get rid of this bunch of *censored*, which has at least made this forum a lot more pleasant lately. But alas, no.... It only takes one post about cables to get them crawling out of the sewers again.

You come across as a really unpleasant person. You would have fiitted in pretty well with the Spanish inquisition, they burnt people that didn't agree with their way of thinking as far as I recall.

Hey ho, takes all sorts to make a world.

Hypocrite. (to borrow the post by one of your pack members earlier in this thread).

It seems to be a lot more like the Spanish inquisition when you and the rest of your pack gang up to attack those who don't agree with your way of thinking. I guess shit doesn't stink when it comes out of your own ass.  (Fancy that, these two words aren't blocked)  

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wow , that's interesting.

wow , that's interesting.

Question, have you had the person who did the test come round and have a listen Dave?

Ans what's the difference between equipment used?

I too belong to the equal length religion.

davedotco wrote:

nopiano wrote:

Welcome, Latinaudio. I for one am happy your changes made the difference you wanted, even if it is hard to rationalise. 

There was recently an interesting TV programme about placebo drug trials where, untypically, the recipients were told they were getting the placebo, but they still reported 'cures' in some cases. Amazing but true!

The mind is a seriously strange thing and it affects hi-fi more than you may imagine. For example....

Over the years I have always followed the 'audiophile rule' of having both speaker cables the same length.

I was always convinced that if this was not the case the soundstage would slip to one side, in my setup the equipment was to one side, so 3m to the near speaker and 6m to the far. The image was always skewed to one side, changing to two 6m lengths solved everything.

These beliefs were challenged by a colleague who set up a blind test, using 3m and 7m cables. I could hear no difference whatsoever. This was repeated a number of times until I was totally convinced that it made no difference.

I took home the cables we used in the tests, using uneven lengths the soundstage was, as usual, skewed to one side, same length cables, absolutely fine.

So, despite it being 'proved' that the length makes no difference, if I know there is a difference in length I hear a problem, so, although I know it is nonsense, I will always use speaker cables thart are the same length.....*unknw*

 

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Thompsonuxb wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

wow , that's interesting.

Question, have you had the person who did the test come round and have a listen Dave?

Ans what's the difference between equipment used?

I too belong to the equal length religion.

 

I think, could be wrong, the point dave was trying to make was that when he couldn't see the difference, he didn't hear any dfference, however, when he hooked the cables up himself his brain skewed the sound.  It's a direct example of subjective bias and shows how powerful the brain is at changing things when it want's to believe it / and / or sight is involved.

 

Have a look at this little article here - doesn't matter it's about coke, the premis is the same Smile http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/cola-brains/

 

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Thompsonuxb wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

wow , that's interesting.

Question, have you had the person who did the test come round and have a listen Dave?

Ans what's the difference between equipment used?

I too belong to the equal length religion.

No need, I have done the test at home too, if I know there are unequal lengths involved the soundstage is skewed, if I do not, it is fine. Just 'knowing' makes the difference.

Similarly with Spotify. I prefer a wired conection over Airplay, hoping eventually to go with Spotify Connect so I can be fully wired. A/B testing Airplay vs optical shows no percievable difference, but I still want fully wired.

Crazy eh...... Unknw

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cheeseboy wrote:

cheeseboy wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

wow , that's interesting.

Question, have you had the person who did the test come round and have a listen Dave?

Ans what's the difference between equipment used?

I too belong to the equal length religion.

I think, could be wrong, the point dave was trying to make was that when he couldn't see the difference, he didn't hear any dfference, however, when he hooked the cables up himself his brain skewed the sound.  It's a direct example of subjective bias and shows how powerful the brain is at changing things when it want's to believe it / and / or sight is involved.

Have a look at this little article here - doesn't matter it's about coke, the premis is the same Smile http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/cola-brains/

The real killer is that even though you know there is no difference and you are being tricked, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it...!

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Lol....

Lol....

The reason thats fascinating in many cases when folk claim they hear no differences, when a cable/ link is swapped out and no differences are heard the non believer will revert back to their preferred/ original cable if given that option.

Why?

Personally me thinks it's denial - differences are 'audible' how ever slight and people do have preferences.

Emperors new cloths from both sides of this debate has someone suggested above.

But that's just how I see it.

davedotco wrote:

Thompsonuxb wrote:

wow , that's interesting.

Question, have you had the person who did the test come round and have a listen Dave?

Ans what's the difference between equipment used?

I too belong to the equal length religion.

No need, I have done the test at home too, if I know there are unequal lengths involved the soundstage is skewed, if I do not, it is fine. Just 'knowing' makes the difference.

Similarly with Spotify. I prefer a wired conection over Airplay, hoping eventually to go with Spotify Connect so I can be fully wired. A/B testing Airplay vs optical shows no percievable difference, but I still want fully wired.

Crazy eh......*unknw*

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Great

Great examples of expectation bias etc. At the end of the day, our brains do what they want with our rational common sense. Thanks for some nice thoughts

Yamaha V2065. MS Mezzo 5.1 Panasonic 42. Sony BD. Garrard 86SB. WD Live TV. SkyHD.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/lounge-hc-signature-update-bass-traps

 

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I have to admit Robin unless

I have to admit Robin unless drugged or highly stressed I struggle with that view that we are so easily fooled on a day to day basis.

We are our brain.

Something as simple as listening to music reproduction.

I dunno.

RobinKidderminster wrote:

Great examples of expectation bias etc. At the end of the day, our brains do what they want with our rational common sense. Thanks for some nice thoughts

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Read that link cheesboy....

Double

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