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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

The_Lhc wrote:

andyjm wrote:
Yep, the iPhone / iPod touch was the nail in the coffin for many handheld controllers.  The logitech duet's handset, the Sonos CR200 handheld, all fell beofre the mighty iDevice.

Yeah, that's right, it had nothing to do with Android devices at all did it? Actually, one of the main reasons Sonos discontinued the CR200 was because they had so many reliability issues with them and it wasn't worth trying to come up with a new controller when you could buy any $99 Android tablet and use it for that instead.

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The wrinkle for Sonos owners is that the iDevice only works with Wifi, not the Sonos MESH network, so depending on your system topology, you may have to replicate Wifi coverage around your house to make your controller work.

Or you could just use an Android device which CAN connect directly to the Sonos mesh network, which is a hell of a lot easier.

Fair enough, should have said iDevice / android, rather than just iDevice.  The android phones were launched at least a year of so behind the iDevices, and it took a while for them to catch on.  I didnt realise that the android phones would use the MESH protocol on WiFi, so I guess that avoids having to run a separate network.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

...oh dear....i seemed to have ruffled a few feathers with my hifi comment to which i appologise as i wasnt meant to be snobbish on the comment.its quite interesting though how some people jumped stright onto the attack though in assuming i was.anyway....i shall explain myself....as i probably should have in original comment but it was posted late at night when rather tired.when i suggested that sonos might not be for someone with an already ok hifi set up....if they were only wanting to listen to music in one room....was that the sonos system does sound good.....similar to say bose for example...or pure radios......but the do not sound anything like as detailed and full bodied as say a £500 amp and £600 speakers being fed by a £500 cd player.so i was meaning that if you had such a hifi system....you wouldnt want to necessarily buy a sonos just so that you could stream internet radio or spotify....you could simply buy a bluetooth receiver or wireless receiver....because buying sonos wouldnt improve sound quality by a margin that would warrant the extra expense.if i could stream lossless quality sound through it....i would be tempted.....but so far it seems the back catologues for lossless arent very large....so again i would be struggling to warrant the expense.maybe that is one of the new uodates coming to sonos??

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

radiorog wrote:

but the do not sound anything like as detailed and full bodied as say a £500 amp and £600 speakers being fed by a £500 cd player.so i was meaning that if you had such a hifi system....you wouldnt want to necessarily buy a sonos just so that you could stream internet radio or spotify....you could simply buy a bluetooth receiver or wireless receiver....because buying sonos wouldnt improve sound quality by a margin that would warrant the extra expense.if i could stream lossless quality sound through it....i would be tempted.....but so far it seems the back catologues for lossless arent very large....so again i would be struggling to warrant the expense.maybe that is one of the new uodates coming to sonos??

OK, well I'm not one of the attack dogs, but it really does depend on what you're comparing. If you're comparing your notional £1600 hifi system with a Sonos Play 3 or Play 5, then you might have a case. But if you're comparing a £500 CD player with a Sonos Connect as a source, then I'd say the attack dogs are right: there really won't be any difference.

As for "lossless" streaming, again it depends what you mean. You can stream lossless files from a hard drive with a Sonos Connect. Lovely. Alternatively you can stream Spotify Premium through a Sonos Connect. Also lovely.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

matt49 wrote:

radiorog wrote:

but the do not sound anything like as detailed and full bodied as say a £500 amp and £600 speakers being fed by a £500 cd player.so i was meaning that if you had such a hifi system....you wouldnt want to necessarily buy a sonos just so that you could stream internet radio or spotify....you could simply buy a bluetooth receiver or wireless receiver....because buying sonos wouldnt improve sound quality by a margin that would warrant the extra expense.if i could stream lossless quality sound through it....i would be tempted.....but so far it seems the back catologues for lossless arent very large....so again i would be struggling to warrant the expense.maybe that is one of the new uodates coming to sonos??

OK, well I'm not one of the attack dogs, but it really does depend on what you're comparing. If you're comparing your notional £1600 hifi system with a Sonos Play 3 or Play 5, then you might have a case. But if you're comparing a £500 CD player with a Sonos Connect as a source, then I'd say the attack dogs are right: there really won't be any difference.

As for "lossless" streaming, again it depends what you mean. You can stream lossless files from a hard drive with a Sonos Connect. Lovely. Alternatively you can stream Spotify Premium through a Sonos Connect. Also lovely.

I'm really loving the concept of you as an 'attack spaniel'....... Dirol

For £1600 you can get a Sonos Connect and, if you are prepared to venture to the dark side, a pair of ADM9s. Outstanding vfm.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

andyjm wrote:
I didnt realise that the android phones would use the MESH protocol on WiFi,

One point of order (simply because it's bugging me), it's not a protocol and MESH is not an acronym, it's simply a description of the network that Sonos devices setup amongst themselves, it's a meshed network, which many people shorten to mesh but it doesn't stand for anything.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

matt49 wrote:
As for "lossless" streaming, again it depends what you mean. You can stream lossless files from a hard drive with a Sonos Connect. 

Probably one of these people that now hold the opinion that only 24-bit audio is truly lossless and audiophile... THere was someone on the Sonos forum the other week stating as FACT that CD wasn't an audiophile source...

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

The_Lhc wrote:

matt49 wrote:
As for "lossless" streaming, again it depends what you mean. You can stream lossless files from a hard drive with a Sonos Connect. 

Probably one of these people that now hold the opinion that only 24-bit audio is truly lossless and audiophile... THere was someone on the Sonos forum the other week stating as FACT that CD wasn't an audiophile source...

 

If thats the case why have 32 bit then?

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

The_Lhc wrote:

matt49 wrote:
As for "lossless" streaming, again it depends what you mean. You can stream lossless files from a hard drive with a Sonos Connect. 

Probably one of these people that now hold the opinion that only 24-bit audio is truly lossless and audiophile... THere was someone on the Sonos forum the other week stating as FACT that CD wasn't an audiophile source...

 

If we are being totally correct about this, then CD isn't lossless. It chucks away frequencies above that which we can hear.

But then if we took that logic then there is no lossless format, at all. Digital is bound by its bit depth, and analogue by physics.

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

The_Lhc wrote:

There was someone on the Sonos forum the other week stating as FACT that CD wasn't an audiophile source...

Dunno what he was doing on the forum then, since that's all Sonos can manage...

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RE: Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

John Duncan wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

There was someone on the Sonos forum the other week stating as FACT that CD wasn't an audiophile source...

Dunno what he was doing on the forum then, since that's all Sonos can manage...

I think that was his point. There's a long-running request thread for 24-bit audio over there.

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Will Sonos ever offer audiophile grade streamers?

Right, I don't know if this is off topic or not. But perhaps some of you can help me. I am now in upgrade mode. I now have ATC SCM50 ASLT  Active tower speakers with ATC CDA2 preamp. At the moment I stream FLAC and AAC files to a Sonos Connect (ZP90) to a Chord QBD76 DAC then to the preamp.

Does anyone know if I will get a definite change/improvement in sound if I change the Sonos Connect to a dedicated streamer (without a DAC, something like the Cyrus Streamer X or X2 or the Chord Electronics mx series IX streamer etc) and connect to the Chord QBD76 DAC? Or is a dedicated streamer just a streamer simply moving digital bits to the DAC?

Thanks for your help.

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If there are sonic

If there are sonic differences between streamers, then they're probably inaudible, except in some extreme cases.

By extreme cases, I mean streaming boxes that are badly implemented or use very noisy switched-mode power supplies. Two examples: there's a known issue with the USB implementation of the Mac Mini with Mavericks (not exactly a streamer, I know, but often used as one), which causes HF comb filter effects. Also in my system the native Sonos Connect sounds relatively poor compared to modded Connects (e.g. by Wyred4Sound or Fidelity Audio) -- done the blind tests, got the T-shirt.

So my answer to your question would be: any streamer that's properly engineered and implemented should sound transparent. But some aren't and don't.

A cheaper alternative to the Cyrus and possibly offering better SQ than a native Connect might be something like the Bluesound Node at £399. It seems to tick almost all the boxes for functionality. I haven't tried it, so couldn't say whether it is sonically transparent.

Matt

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Thanks.

Thanks.

Still confused though. You first say that there are sonic differences between streamers, probably inaudible except in extreme cases. Then you say, "Also in my system the native Sonos Connect sounds relatively poor compared to modded Connects (e.g. by Wyred4Sound or Fidelity Audio) -- done the blind tests, got the T-shirt."

So maybe I should consider looking into a modded Sonos Connect connected to my Chord QBD76 DAC to further enhance the listening pleasure.

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matt49 wrote:Also in my

matt49 wrote:
Also in my system the native Sonos Connect sounds relatively poor compared to modded Connects (e.g. by Wyred4Sound or Fidelity Audio) -- done the blind tests, got the T-shirt.

I can't remember the thread you talked about this in, are you using the analogue outputs or the digital one from the Connects in this comparison?

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Some time ago I was able to

Some time ago I was able to compare the standard Connect woth the W4S (Cullen) moded version using the digital outs at fixed level.

Not particularly scientific but the modded unit certainly seemed to be better in all respects, at times I was not told which unit was playing but the modded player was invariably better to my ears. The playback system was decent rather than exceptional so i would expect the results to be audible on most systems. 

Matt's system is of course seriously good, not surprising the difference is obvious.

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