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Why some speaker cables sound different - in layman's terms

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oldric_naubhoff
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different - in layman's terms

shadders wrote:

oldric_naubhoff wrote:
.

as everybody knows high capacitance attenuates bass frequencies and low inductance lets high frequencies through unattenuated. hence you get those reports on "better speed/PRAT", "more detail" and "the  speaker boom has now disappeared". but also there's one more thing that few people fail to see. the wire is a part of the system and as such it also interacts with the rest of the components. especially the amp is prone to be influenced by bad cabling matching. unfortunately amps rarely like to "see" capacitive load and some may even go into mild oscillation from high capacitance wires. and peps will hear even more "excitement" from such speaker wire in this case, which is nothing else as excessive high freq distortion. lo and behold; full potential of your speakers has just been released.

rolling on the floor laughing

 

Hi, 

This is incorrect. A cable is generally modelled as a series inductance and resistance, and parallel capacitance and conductance across the pair.

As such a high capacitance will attenuate the high frequencies  - hence bass is less affected than high frequencies.

Regards,

Shadders.

Shock puzzled

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BigColz
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

CnoEvil wrote:

Electro wrote:

I use Nordost SPM speaker cables and the specs given are capacitance = 7.9pF/ft , inductance = 0.12µH/ft and resistive impedance is 1 ohm / 1000 ft .

I have no idea what effect these specs mean but I love what this cable does or doesn't do .

Nordost Valhalla specs are capacitance = 11.8pF/ft , inductance = 0.096µH/ft

Perhaps someone could explain the relevance of these specs for me if indeed they have any puzzled  excellent!  

Nordost also quote their VOP.....Valhalla S/C is 95% of the speed of light; I/C is 87% of the speed of light.....which I suspect is very impressive.

IMO. All round knowledge comes from both research and practical experience, where going out there and trying it is vital. It is all to easy to take on board only what fits one's view, and ignore the rest....and we are all guilty of that to some degree or another.

I still can't answer your question though.

 

I e-mailed Chord to see what the tech info was on my speaker cables are.. This is the response.. I just want to know if the cable could be giving me too much of a hissy top end.. It's probably just the small tweeter on the ProAc's and i'll dem some PMC and Kef R series next month.. Thought you might be interested either way..

 

Cheers guys  beauty, eh

 

Dear Matt,

 

Thank you for your e-mail.  Epic Twin is as follows.  Capacitance per metre in picofarads 87.7. Inductance per metre in microhenries 0.5.  Resistance per metre in milliohms 12

 

Our experience  is that as long as the above measurements fall within a fairly broad set of parameters it is pretty hard to look at these measurements and produce an accurate view of how a speaker cable performs.  Measurements outside of these parameters, either low or high, can have an effect on the tonal characteristics that the speaker cable produces. 

 

In the case of the Epic, the conductors are silver-plated and are insulated with PTFE.  The choice of insulation, we think, is critical when using silver plated conductors.  The experiments we carried out show that the type of insulation used with silver plated conductors can have quite a big effect on the tonal characteristics of the cable.  We use PTFE because once the cable is run in, the tonal characteristics are essentially very neutral.

 

The other important point about the Epic is that it is extremely well shielded and this has a profound effect on the performance of the cable.  I hope this is useful.

 

 

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steve_1979
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

Chord wrote:
...once the cable is run in, the tonal characteristics are essentially very neutral.

Chord says that their speaker cables need to be run in before they sound neutral. rolling on the floor laughing

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CnoEvil
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

BigColz wrote:

I e-mailed Chord to see what the tech info was on my speaker cables are.. This is the response.. I just want to know if the cable could be giving me too much of a hissy top end.. It's probably just the small tweeter on the ProAc's and i'll dem some PMC and Kef R series next month.. Thought you might be interested either way..

Cheers guys  beauty, eh

Dear Matt,

Thank you for your e-mail.  Epic Twin is as follows.  Capacitance per metre in picofarads 87.7. Inductance per metre in microhenries 0.5.  Resistance per metre in milliohms 12

 Our experience  is that as long as the above measurements fall within a fairly broad set of parameters it is pretty hard to look at these measurements and produce an accurate view of how a speaker cable performs.  Measurements outside of these parameters, either low or high, can have an effect on the tonal characteristics that the speaker cable produces. 

 In the case of the Epic, the conductors are silver-plated and are insulated with PTFE.  The choice of insulation, we think, is critical when using silver plated conductors.  The experiments we carried out show that the type of insulation used with silver plated conductors can have quite a big effect on the tonal characteristics of the cable.  We use PTFE because once the cable is run in, the tonal characteristics are essentially very neutral.

 The other important point about the Epic is that it is extremely well shielded and this has a profound effect on the performance of the cable.  I hope this is useful.

 

You need to hear TQ Black before buying Chord......and their cable specs are a guarded secret, as far as I know......in order to let your ears decide, without any spin.

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BronC
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

I agree with CnoEvil.  I tried Chord v TQ and they did sound different.  Don't be swayed by price as well.  Some of the cheaper cables sonded better (to me) than the more expensive ones - even within the same manufacturer!!

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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

Chord wrote:
...once the cable is run in, the tonal characteristics are essentially very neutral.

Call me a sceptic, but I'd be very interested to see what evidence they have to back up that claim. puzzled

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CnoEvil
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

steve_1979 wrote:

Chord wrote:
...once the cable is run in, the tonal characteristics are essentially very neutral.

Call me a sceptic, but I'd be very interested to see what evidence they have to back up that claim. puzzled

Here is the view of George Cardas: http://www.cardas.com/insights_break_in.php

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lindsayt
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different - in layman's terms

shadders wrote:

Hi, 

This is incorrect. A cable is generally modelled as a series inductance and resistance, and parallel capacitance and conductance across the pair.

As such a high capacitance will attenuate the high frequencies  - hence bass is less affected than high frequencies.

Regards,

Shadders.

Why are speaker cables modelled as parallel capacitance and not series capacitance?

 

Just thinking out loud here: surely what you have is the capacitance of the positive conductor of the cable in series with the positive terminals of the amp and speakers and the capacitance of the negative conductor of the cable in series with the negative terminals of the amp and speakers? So all you need to do is measure the series capacitance of one conductor and double it for the total in series capacitance effect?

 

I suppose this is something that anyone could test by simply buying 2 fairly large (or 4 for a stereo pair) capacitors and placing them in series between their speaker cables and either amp or speaker terminals, and then playing some music to see what effect this has had.

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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different - in layman's terms

Couldn't agree more. TQB is amazing. When I moved all my equipment 15 metres away from my speakers, I realised my 2m lengths would need to be sold as I couldn't afford £45 x 30m and did I notice the difference! I've got used to it now but that cable is serious stuff - I wouldn't dare demo the Ultra!

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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

CnoEvil wrote:

Here is the view of George Cardas: http://www.cardas.com/insights_break_in.php

Thanks for the link Cno. Smile

 

That is quite possibly the best example of 'scientific sounding mumbo jumbo' that I've ever seen. Not only do the cables need burning in but according to Cadas even the room needs burning in. doh!

 

Cardas Cables wrote:

As a rule, companies set up audition rooms at high end audio shows a couple of days ahead of time to let them break in. The first day the sound is usually bad and it is very stressful. The last day sounds great. Mechanical stress in speaker cables, speaker cabinets, even the walls of the room, must be relaxed in order for the system to sound its best.

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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different - in layman's terms

Of course WALLS HAVE EARS, have you not heard that before Quest

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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

steve_1979 wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

Here is the view of George Cardas: http://www.cardas.com/insights_break_in.php

Thanks for the link Cno. Smile

 

That is quite possibly the best example of 'scientific sounding mumbo jumbo' that I've ever seen. Not only do the cables need burning in but according to Cadas even the room needs burning in. doh!

 

Cardas Cables wrote:

As a rule, companies set up audition rooms at high end audio shows a couple of days ahead of time to let them break in. The first day the sound is usually bad and it is very stressful. The last day sounds great. Mechanical stress in speaker cables, speaker cabinets, even the walls of the room, must be relaxed in order for the system to sound its best.

 

Oh dear, that is bad. I would worry for the stability of my house if a few days of music 'relaxed the mechanical stress' in the walls. 

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BigH
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different - in layman's terms

Maybe it is his hearing getting used to the room rather than anything in the room actually changing has he not thought about that.

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CnoEvil
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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

BenLaw wrote:

Oh dear, that is bad. I would worry for the stability of my house if a few days of music 'relaxed the mechanical stress' in the walls. 

Tongue

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RE: Why some speaker cables sound different

steve_1979 wrote:

That is quite possibly the best example of 'scientific sounding mumbo jumbo' that I've ever seen. Not only do the cables need burning in but according to Cadas even the room needs burning in. doh!

In fairness, you dont know how valid these points are (ie. the complete article), any more than I do. Most of what George Cardas claims, he can prove with measurements......what effect they have, I can't tell you.

You don't think cables make a big difference, so dismiss anything that doesn't fit your view......which is of course, your right.

I have done my best to provide evidence and blind tests to make my points, but can't win, as you just label it as mumbo jumbo, and selectively quote small bits, conveniently leaving out the rest.

Tongue

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