And if we're listening to the minutiae in a piece to hear that difference, we've given up on the point of a stereo in the first place (IMO).
Rubbish, then why spend all that money on high-end equipment?? Like someone said, let's keep it civilised, but obviously people like RS are deaf, dumb and blind. He couldn't help but take an unprovoked dig at me.
I was just pointing out the *slight* hypocrisy of Steve providing scientific evidence of cables, but yet chooses to ignore the fact that music is truncated from compressed music. And absolutely wants to shove it down our throats that ABX testing will prove we can't tell the difference.
And Stuck Record Spot - for the umpteenth time - can you get it through your thick skull that it was never 1998 for me - I actually only started ripping music on my PC from around 2007. Sounds like you're firmly stuck in 1998.
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Prize awarded for the first uncivilised response. As has been mentioned, t's a different argument entirely. And ABX can only prove that a difference is audible, not that it isn't. Go and read upon ABX on Hydrogen Audio, or in fact anywhere.
Your argument that Steve is "choosing to ignore" is silly. It's like me claiming that Hungary has produced the best classical music and you countering with "What about Abba, they are from Sweden?"
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I think he's pointing out that you're highlighting that speaker cables can sound different but there isn't with an MP3 of a decent rate against lossless.
Ahhh I see.
With the greatest of respect to you all, if anyone wants to talk about MP3's then you're welcome to start another thread on the subject. But I'd be very grateful if we could try an keep this thread on topic without derailing it by discussing unrelated subjects such MP3s. Thank you.
This thread was started because it seems that the majority of the people on this forum didn't realise that a speaker cable can alter the tone of the music as a result of its capacitance or inductance properties. It also seems that the majority of the people here didn't know that any cable that changes the tone of the music as a result of its capacitance or inductance will also be degrading the sound quality by messing up the phase.
I've never seen either of these points discussed on the WHF forums before and thought that it may be interesting and useful for people to have a thread about how the capacitance or inductance of a cable can alter the tone and phase.
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Uncivilised? I don't care a hoot. This is a hi-fi forum after all. Steve and his ilk do 'choose to ignore' cos they consistently dictate to some of us who can hear a difference that we're losing our minds. And now he wants to evangelise and proselytise to us about speaker cables??? For the love of sound, please!!!!!!!! I certainly use Chord speaker cables, but you know what? I certainly won't be the one to shoot Steve and his gang in the other foot. Others like Record Spot seem more than capable of doing that.
...you should have a nicely calloused lump by now.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
Just trying to share some useful information that explains why some speaker cables sound different. Clicky
Hey, how many times must we re-run this?
Some believe, some dont.
This post has been done before and its now like religion or politics, best not discussed at dinner parties.
Shall we treat the forum as a dinner party?
Personally I like these debates. So long as they remain civilised. After all it's a hi-fi and music forum first and foremost. And even if the discussions have been done before, there are new members signing up, new data emerging and new technologies being developed.
It's pretty simple to avoid them. This one has it in black and white in the title. If cable, codec, active v passive etc doesn't interest you then you simply ignore.
Hey, good job you pointed all that out to me, never has guessed on my own. Actually I have read a few of these because they are interesting at the outset, but always end up in an argumentative vein, which becomes nether productive nor informative.
Just voicing my opinion, I believe that is allowed.
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Why spend money on all the high end equipment? Not just for audio reasons - marque, cache, status, perceived quality of expensive gear, brand appeal...take your pick. Why do people buy high end watches? Do they tell the time any better?
Liking the "Stuck" Record Spot. Clearly, don't give up the day job...
...and you plainly don't get the reference I make to 1998. Your comments come across like someone from that era; when MP3 apparently sounded dreadful. But as I have a range of music on WAV, MP3 and FLAC, which were sourced from excellent recordings or masterings, I think I'm pretty confident in saying MP3 is fine. The ones that need to catch up, like yourself, just need to pry their eyes away from the marketing blurb and hear for themselves. I've been burning my CDs since 2003 and never failed to be impressed; WAV, lossless, whatever. If the source recording is good, it'll follow through. What bit aren't you getting?
Oh and whatever I said pales in comparison with the petulant little schoolboy rant you gave off above.
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Nobody is dictating anything of the sort, but you are behaving iike an uncivilised oaf. And don't bring me into the debate.
I used to use Audioquest Type IV, it got swapped out for some 400-strand OFC in a single wire configuration. Guess what, the 400-strand is still in place and works a treat, sounds it too. £13/metre against £18 all in for the same sound quality? Hello?!
Glad you like your Chord, now go take a chill pill.
If you haven't read through some of the links that I posted, there is some interesting food for thought:
- VOP (Velocity of Propagation) is a measure of the speed that a signal passes through the cable....it is defined as a figure relative to the speed of light.. It can be measured using the TDR Technique.
All dielectrics slow down the signal velocity, with the best slowing down the least.....a faster cable provides more information.
- According to Atlas, the 3 factors that influence the quality of a cable are:
1] Conductor material specifications. 2] Insulation specification. 3] Plug design and construction materials.
- The purity of the conductor is determined by the purity of the ingot, which itself is roughly related to the grain boundaries present in the final conductor. This is measured in Nines (N) - 99.99 (4N); 99.997 (5N). The highest currently available is 7N.
- Since high frequency signals occupy the periphery of the conductor, poor quality dielectrics reduce the velocity of this signal, resulting in a sound which is biased towards the mid and low frequency.
- Unless addressed, cables are effected by the adverse effects of microphony.
- Cardas also make the point that dielectrics can't pass charge as fast as conductors. The VOP of solid and bare stranded conductors is about 127% of the best dielectric. How you balance this difference is key to cable quality.
- The signal used by your system, whether digital or analogue, is always AC, which according to Cardas, vibrates the wire in your system like strumming of a guitar string. This form of resonance distorts the audio signal and produces many sound anomalies from coloured bass to glare. Every cable has its own resonant signature. Like the mass, tension and hardness of the guitar string, the mass, tension and hardness of the conductor, coupled with its inductance, resistance and capacitance of the cable, determine what sound is made.
- When the cable linking the audio components together imparts its own sound, the audio signal is corrupted.
- Matching the speed of the signal in the conductor with the speed of the dielectric has advantages, like eliminating electromechanical resonance and eliminating ring at source.
- Cardas says there are easily performed measurements that show the difference between cables and with a little experience you can even predict sound anomalies by looking at wave form characteristics and input / output comparisons (eg. using a Tetronics TDS 350).
I have not suddenly come over all technical, but this is just some of what Atlas and Cardas deem important......I can't tell how much of it is spin....but you did ask!
Anybody want a game of Night-time Day-time?
Yeah why not........doesn't seem much else to do.....
Shall I put some music on?
Silver or copper cables (which IMO is the biggest difference in speaker wire)?!
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