Macspur wrote, The active pasiv subject has been done to death. At the end of the day there's no better or worse, it's whatever floats your boat.
Surely this just can't be that difficult? The thing is Mac, that there is a better and a worse. Active speakers are better than passive speakers when on an equal build quality footing. Boat floating has got nothing to do with absolute quality. Various manufacturers do the best they can from a flawed system but passives in direct competition are not as good as actives.
Many people, you included, prefer your passive sound but that does not negate the FACT that actives, properly built, are better than properly built passives. You like a flawed way, you are not alone but I and others think it only fair that other people are made aware that there is a better way. That better way is active.
Now only you and your brethren will ensure that this subject goes on. It's up to you whether you continue to peddle a flawed argument.
Apple Lossless - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40 also ATV3 into AVI ADM 9T [my wife's system]
and Grado SR80i
I know... quite frankly it's becoming boring.
Not so boring that you couldn't resist reading or posting about it though.
I think you'll find I posted about the original subject then skipped through all the dross till I read Singslingers comments.
The active pasiv subject has been done to death. At the end of the day there's no better or worse, it's whatever floats your boat.
Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts
How do you want this thread to end Relocated?
Is it some dream scenario where everyone (currently using passive loudspeakers) promises to do their very best to buy actives in the near future and post photos to prove it to your satisfaction?
Of course it isn't ! You and I both know that isn't going to happen, so there has to be some alternative end to threads like this.
We've had the bit where the original question is answered.
We've had the bit where people like yourself have promoted the virtues of active systems (as users) and provided links to the experts.
We've had the bit where everyone gets into a bit of an argument.
Now, as our transatlantic cousins like to say, "we need closure". How do you see that happening from your point of view? Do we all have to apologise for liking our systems or something?
By all means keep taking tit-for-tat/eye-for-eye chunks out of each other, but - on the essential point of active technology vs passive technology - can't we take our lead from PMC? (As they featured so admirably as the main technical reference in this thread).
They are happy to make the best of both approaches. So can't we all do the same?
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At present, there are not enough active speakers to provide a real alternative at prices people can afford, and what there are are restricted to HiFi. I wouldn't see that changing in the near future.
I'm not getting into any arguments here, but I am surprised as to why actives aren't more popular. I can understand people nowadays want a solution that involves less boxes. In fact, the likes of soundbars, iPod docks, and mini systems proves that. As someone has already mentioned though, I doubt very much conventional hi-fi systems are going to die out, contrary to the beliefs of the few that do their best to promote actives. Actives (albeit in their more basic form) have been around for many decades, but for domestic use, passive was the chosen route at sme point for the majority, and still is. There are plenty of powered speakers on the market that are quite popular with students and youngsters nowadays, and if they grow up and look for an easy transition, they may well be looking at something like the products AVI are producing, but they need to be in a large number of dealers around the country. You need widespread coverage in order for people to see the product, play with the product, and buy it. Some of the most successful brands in audio and AV today have relied heavily on marketing to get the brand and product across, and they've been ready to grow with that steady increase for demand. Waiting for conventional separates and dealers to die out isn't the way to gain market share - promotion, promotion, promotion. And not the kind we see on forums.
Having said that, when Ken Kreisel designed the first active subwoofer in the early 70's. He wasn't to know that it would come into its own in the 90's for home theatre use. This is what AVI needs - but I can't see that happening for stereo speakers.
The other issue AVI may have is that now more manufacturers are starting to come onboard with active speakers, their market share might be eaten into as people who start looking at active speakers will "go with what they know". But who knows? Maybe one day soon the active thing will just suddenly explode. The future for electronics is unpredictable.
I did have a structure for this post, but I want to settle down and watch Donnie Darko, so I've rushed it a little and it has become messy. Hopefully a few points got across though
David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry
My prediction - twenty years from now, maybe less, the number of people using separate amp and speakers - let alone pre/power and speakers - will be about the same, probably less, as those using turntables now. It'll have nothing to do with quality of sound and everything to do with ease of use, convenience and of course price. The speakers of the future will invariably come with DAC and digital amp built in and will connect wirelessly to each and every device you own. In fact, why wouldn't they also be the source; capable of downloading content from wherever and storing it on a 2 terrabyte micro SD card?
Wives and girlfriends will be over the moon; men who like to search endlessly for "nirvana" will have to find something else to obsess about - or maybe just get out more!
Anyway, IMHO, traditional makers of hi-end hifi are on a slippery slope and they need to do something soon before Apple come out with the ispeaker and do what they did to Sony and Nokia with the ipod and the iphone.
BTW, have been reading a lot of AS on the HUG - he is the god of common sense! I'll be off to Doug Brady to audition some P3ESR's soon as.
I'll be off to Doug Brady to audition some P3ESR's soon as.
Now that's something worth reading about.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
I'm finding you quite offensive now... I have no arguement re this rediculous debate, only other than it is BORING.
Accuphase E350 amp, Electrocompaniet EMC1UP CDP, Siltech 25th Classic anniversary 330I XLR Harbeth Super HL5 on Sound Anchor Quod ELS63 stands, Chord Odessey2 speaker cable. Grado SR60 headphones.
...soon as I can convince my wife that I should spend £1500 on new speakers when there's still sound coming out of the nearly 20 year old Linn's.
The LP has been with us for 65 years now, outlasting every other physical format that has appeared during its time. Many people will say that CD's are on their way out too. Obviously, any format that has already peaked is on its way out, but in the case of the LP, that probably peaked in the 80's - thirty years later it is still here. The girlfriend is nagging me to buy her a turntable, so not all wives and girlfriends are looking for simple solutions.
You might be surprised at how many turntables of all price ranges are still being purchased. Diverse Vinyl reckoned they were busier than ever at the Bristol Show. Whenever we hold an open day here with Diverse Vinyl, many people come to purchase. The Bristol Show had rather a lot of vinyl sources this year too. There's demand out there, so much so we're looking into stocking vinyl in the near future. Those that despise vinyl might keep on predicting its death, but I can't see any proof at the moment that it is going away.
Thats not so much a prediction, just my thoughts
I think once you've heard them the Linn's will suffer a sudden and...cough...catastrophic failure...
NaimUniti | Rega RP8 | Dynaudio Xeo 3
Ok,thinking abaut passive vs active ,searching web and reading this thread,to my mind poped an idea-ACTIVE CROSSOVER.The Basic idea is- make active speakers from passive ones just adding active crossover and power amp to excisting system,dissconnecting passive crossover from drivers and connecting to it power amps which is connected to active crossover,crossover connected to preamp .Like in this picture.The other idea:if you have lower range speaker,by adding high quality twetter and bass driver and damping cabinet like high end speakers.Results will be improved sound quality . Has anybody tried this or this bad idea?
Harbeth SHL5 ,Technics se-a3000,su-c3000,Bryston BDA-1,V-Link192,self made usb cable from flat tasker red copper cable ,Atlas titan interconnects,atlas hyper2.0 speaker cable
Using the term 'build quality' was a hamfisted [vocabulary failure] attempt to ensure that someone else didn't grab on to the 'a badly implemented active speaker will be beaten by a well implemented passive speaker' or thereabouts. Unfortunately when people are fighting the truth they they grab hold of any word or phrase to keep their flawed ideas alive.
Your question regarding speakers sounding the same is laughable and I won't waste my time answering it.
There are insufficient actives in the market at the moment but momentum will build I'm sure. You 100% correct that an active 5.1 would move things along. As to the price of actives, well people can afford them if they are coming new to hifi, they just have to weigh all the seperate costs of passive versus the single cost of actives [yes they do need a source, Xeos? aside] and the better sound for money they will get from the actives.
Chebby, your posts are always worth my time to read and yet you go and ruin things with preposterous questions. However I will say again what I have already said here and elsewhere. IF PEOPLE ARE HAPPY WITH WHAT THEY HAVE, THEN I AM AS HAPPY AS THEY ARE. No-one need apologise for liking what they like.
I am not "tit-for-tat"ing, when I challenge people who persist with flawed arguments that confuse people who may not understand things as well as you and I. I thought taking the lead from PMC would indeed stop the argument about absolute quality being better in the active domain, but it didn't. That isn't my fault, but I will not let things go unchallenged when they are factually incorrect.
I trust that what I have repeated here gives you a better understanding of where I am coming from. I am not on a mission to change everyone to active, I merely offer the alternative that many people are unaware of and to counter fault where fault lies.
Rimse, this is what an Active speaker is. Some active speakers have all the active crossover and amps in the speaker cabinet and some have the active crossover and amps externally. You will have seen people refer to 'powered speakers', these are not 'active' in the true sense of the word because they are passive speakers with amps in the speaker enclosure. The important bit is the 'active crossover' in whatever form it takes.
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