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RE: When should actives be recommended?

CnoEvil wrote:

 

 

There is a third group.....those who simply put the love of music first and work back from there. They don't give a fiddler's f**k about the technology that allows this, as long as the music is realistic, emotional, passionate, believable, and with the intention of the musicians coming across as intact as possible.

A box swop is never "just for the sake of it", but a very considered decision, where an immediately noticable, worthwhile improvement to the portrayal of the music is the result. This bit of kit is then likely to remain in-situ for many years.

 

 

+1     :grin:   :clap:

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Electrocompaniet EMC 1 up , Monarchy Audio DIP, ECD 1 dac , EC4.8 preamp , 2x AW180 monoblock power amps , PMC Pb1i speakers .

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

CnoEvil wrote:

JMacMan wrote:

To my mind there are two main groups of AV system buyers.

Those for whom movies and music is the raison de etre for the systems purchase and existence in the home, and where the owner wants a fiddle free, high quality plug and play solution.

Active systems are likely to be in the buying sights of such consumers

Then there are those, who whilst they like music, like to tinker with the product most, if not all the time - kind of a grown up lego or Mecanno set for boys. It's a very valid hobby, and for that kind of consumer, active will never cut it, as it removes the twiddle and tweak factor.

All other things being equal, active is technically better than passive - it's an engineering fact - but nonetheless is not likely to interest the second group for the reasons mentioned, nor will it likely be promoted by current retail HiFi sales chains, as an active system cuts out a lot of repeat business, and bread and butter sales such as cables, stands, racks, 'foo' acccessories etc.

It really comes down to what you want out of a system IMHO.

JMac

There is a third group.....those who simply put the love of music first and work back from there. They don't give a fiddler's f**k about the technology that allows this, as long as the music is realistic, emotional, passionate, believable, and with the intention of the musicians coming across as intact as possible.

A box swop is never "just for the sake of it", but a very considered decision, where an immediately noticable, worthwhile improvement to the portrayal of the music is the result. This bit of kit is then likely to remain in-situ for many years.

 

 

Yip, I'm the perfect example.  You've just described me to a T Smile That reminds me, must put the kettle on.

Amp; CDP; Turntable; Tuner; Speakers

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

Actives have been used in studios for decades, and if the domestic market was going to follow suit, I would've expected it to do so already. If a shift in that direction does happen, I'm sure you'll see speaker manufacturers flood the market with active alternatives. Its have to be a pretty big shift though.

It'll happen when the current generation of teenagers who have grown up with ipods become home owners/renters. They will want an upmarket dock and a pair of wireless active speakers.

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

JMacMan wrote:

I do apologise if my posts and or thoughts come across as being those of an evangelist - I do hope not

Not in the slightest John.

Your posts tend to be insightful, considered, balanced and well written.

A refreshing change from the noise produced by certain proponents of actives on these forums

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

abacus wrote:
Here’s a question that should put a spanner in the works of the Active verses passive brigade.

 How many of you active and passive promoters out there have a home cinema system that just uses passive or active speakers. (Remember the subwoofer is a speaker as well)

 Bill

Active subwoofers (invented by Ken Kreisel) have been accepted into AV more due to the convenience factor than for any reason in connection with superiority.

There are plenty of average and below par active subs out there, so just because a product uses a supposedly technologically superior approach, it doesn't mean that it is superior full stop. The rest of my system is passive, and I am unlikely to go active for the other five (maybe seven, nine, or eleven in the future) speakers unless dedicated AV speakers are produced with high efficiency amplification - the tightening of belts affects the non stop barrage of ongoing bills, not just the one off purchases of electronics.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

pauln wrote:

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

Actives have been used in studios for decades, and if the domestic market was going to follow suit, I would've expected it to do so already. If a shift in that direction does happen, I'm sure you'll see speaker manufacturers flood the market with active alternatives. Its have to be a pretty big shift though.

It'll happen when the current generation of teenagers who have grown up with ipods become home owners/renters. They will want an upmarket dock and a pair of wireless active speakers.

What makes you think they'll be buying speakers? A certain speaker manufacturer is already netting more profit from iPod docks than they are speakers. I also think that any of those buying a pair of wireless speakers aren't going to be spending a large amount of money on them. Probably under £500.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

pauln wrote:

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

Actives have been used in studios for decades, and if the domestic market was going to follow suit, I would've expected it to do so already. If a shift in that direction does happen, I'm sure you'll see speaker manufacturers flood the market with active alternatives. Its have to be a pretty big shift though.

It'll happen when the current generation of teenagers who have grown up with ipods become home owners/renters. They will want an upmarket dock and a pair of wireless active speakers.

What makes you think they'll be buying speakers? A certain speaker manufacturer is already netting more profit from iPod docks than they are speakers. I also think that any of those buying a pair of wireless speakers aren't going to be spending a large amount of money on them. Probably under £500.

For a few reasons:

1. As they get more mature a lot of them will want better sound than what is available from an all in one dock/speaker system.

1a. Even if they don't sound a lot better, speakers will still be marketed as such and 90% of the population will still be taken in by the marketing hype.

2. Stereo separation?

3. There is still the possibility for the (predominantly) male trait of upgrading.

4. Closely linked to reason 3; bragging rights to your mates. This also applies to bikes, cars, jet skis, computers, pit bulls... anything really; and usually boils down to a "mine's bigger than yours" thing.

5. You can't make a dock part of a surround sound system for movies/games.

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

daveh75 wrote:

JMacMan wrote:

I do apologise if my posts and or thoughts come across as being those of an evangelist - I do hope not

Not in the slightest John. Your posts tend to be insightful, considered, balanced and well written. A refreshing change from the noise produced by certain proponents of actives on these forums

I agree. Some exellent and thought provoking posts by jMac. Dirol

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

pauln wrote:

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:

Actives have been used in studios for decades, and if the domestic market was going to follow suit, I would've expected it to do so already. If a shift in that direction does happen, I'm sure you'll see speaker manufacturers flood the market with active alternatives. Its have to be a pretty big shift though.

It'll happen when the current generation of teenagers who have grown up with ipods become home owners/renters. They will want an upmarket dock and a pair of wireless active speakers.

 

And when retailers actually give the punter an opportunity to audition active products.  Unlike the last 40 years that I have been going to retailers anyway.  Please don't roll out the exhausted, 'well there's never been a call for them'.

Apple lossless - Netgear Nighthawk - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40.  

AVI ADM 9T used in my wife's system

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

Electro wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

 

 

There is a third group.....those who simply put the love of music first and work back from there. They don't give a fiddler's f**k about the technology that allows this, as long as the music is realistic, emotional, passionate, believable, and with the intention of the musicians coming across as intact as possible.

A box swop is never "just for the sake of it", but a very considered decision, where an immediately noticable, worthwhile improvement to the portrayal of the music is the result. This bit of kit is then likely to remain in-situ for many years.

 

 

Most sensible post in the whole thread.......................

+1     :grin:   :clap:

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

FrankHarveyHiFi wrote:
... just because a product uses a supposedly technologically superior approach, it doesn't mean that it is superior full stop. 

 

This is 100% true, and 100% irrelevant.

If you want to produce a "best of kind" product, it always makes sense to use the acknowledged best way to do something and the best components where necessary  and/or cost effective. Just because bad examples of active speakers exist doesn't mean they aren't the best solution to the problem of how to get a signal to 2 or more speaker drivers that produce different frequency ranges.Of course there are great passive speakers around and of course there are bad actives. But the fact is, that any one of those great passive designs could be improved on in active form.

Whenever I see someone use this argument these days, I think of grandmothers and egg-sucking school.

 

And to the OS. I think give that people come here asking for advice on Hi-Fi, active speakers are justifiably recommended and endorsed in all cases where they could make a positive difference or save some money.

And as people do start to realise the benefits, and more buy them, there will be more and more people suggesting them. The silly arguments are annoying but then that's life.

 

 

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RE:

pauln wrote:
1. As they get more mature a lot of them will want better sound than what is available from an all in one dock/speaker system.
Not necessarily. 

Quote:
1a. Even if they don't sound a lot better, speakers will still be marketed as such and 90% of the population will still be taken in by the marketing hype.
BS

Quote:
2. Stereo separation?
Not the highest priority on people's agendas when buying convenient audio nowadays.

Quote:
3. There is still the possibility for the (predominantly) male trait of upgrading.
I do find it funny how the active brigade class upgrading as some sort of disease that is only cure able by buying AVI. And apparently people do it only once they've bought a separates system, and they then do it regularly and constantly until death.

Quote:
4. Closely linked to reason 3; bragging rights to your mates. This also applies to bikes, cars, jet skis, computers, pit bulls... anything really; and usually boils down to a "mine's bigger than yours" thing.
Those that willy wave are hardly likely to buy a one box dock in the first place, and they're not likely to buy a pair of active speakers either. Not unless they're 7 feet tall.

Quote:
5. You can't make a dock part of a surround sound system for movies/games.
Only a matter of time. Sonos have already moved in that direction. Again, those that are after something surround sound for games won't be buying iPod docks or high quality active stereo speakers.

DavidF @FrankHarveyHiFi, Coventry.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light"

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

Craig M. wrote:

Covenanter wrote:

As for any theoretical advantage of actives I'm sorry bit I don't buy that; that's all a one with the looney cable posters to this forum - the "my ears can't be wrong" brigade.

Chris

Chris, the advantages of an active crossover are very real.  A bit of time with google will find you all the info you need.

This will get you off to a start.   Clicky and  clicky and clicky

I understand the theory. 

Chris

Marantz PM8005 / SA8005 / KEF R700s / AKG K702

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

some info on active speakers

 

http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/features-menu/general-interest-interviews-menu/343-active-loudspeaker-systems-on-the-rise-peter-roth-talks-with-andy-payor-laurence-dickie-and-richard-vandersteen

 

cheapest pair of actives that actually work are vanatoo transparent one

http://www.vanatoo.com/

active speakers  start sounding really , really good once you get into the £5000 + bracket

 use active sanders electrostatics myself

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RE: When should actives be recommended?

Alec wrote:

the record spot wrote:
apparent issues with some Apple gear.

 

Really? If so, that's brilliant and very funny indeed!

 

Now, do go and calm down, dear.

 

 

Not in a tizz about it at all Alec, but some users are having a bit of bother. Not just Apple as one user appears to have issues with a series of bits of kit going into the ADMs. Maybe his wife just keeps sneakily turning them off. But I suspect not.   Wink

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