Have your say & ask the experts!

When should actives be recommended?

265 replies [Last post]
daveh75's picture
Offline
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 8216
RE: When should actives be recommended?

Overdose wrote:
Audio over HDMI offers no particular benefits, for stereo playback. USB might be useful, but apparently the ADMs with USB didn't sell all that well. Perhaps things have changed and there is now a greater demand.

Well given that for a lot of people the TV is their 'media hub' and most TVs don't have analogue outs, some don't have optical or some won't pass through audio from connected sources, I can see value in HDMI for stereo use

 

Quote:

I can see HDMI connectivity being used in a wireless AV receiver setup though for multi channel use. Something like the Xeo transmitter for example.

 

Wireless multichannel Actives with HDMI connectivity is already being done by Aperion in the US

__________________

 

 

Overdose's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 3135
RE: When should actives be recommended?

daveh75 wrote:

Overdose wrote:
Audio over HDMI offers no particular benefits, for stereo playback. USB might be useful, but apparently the ADMs with USB didn't sell all that well. Perhaps things have changed and there is now a greater demand.

Well given that for a lot of people the TV is their 'media hub' and most TVs don't have analogue outs, some don't have optical or some won't pass through audio from connected sources, I can see value in HDMI connectivity.

 

Quote:
 

I can see HDMI connectivity being used in a wireless AV receiver setup though for multi channel use. Something like the Xeo transmitter for example.

 

Wireless multichannel Actives with HDMI connectevity is already being done by Aperion in the US

So using the speakers from the TV rather than traditional sources? Contraversial. Yes, HDMI would be handy.

Dynaudio also have wireless actives, but I was thinking more along the lines of a complete wireless multi-channel system, not just the surrounds.

Edit: Veering of topic here (again), I think this threads spent.

__________________

Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts

SunnyCyprus's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 Aug 2011
Posts: 19
RE: When should actives be recommended?

Got to love these sadly all too familiar circular arguments.   Horses for courses one man's meat etc etc.

Been around "Hi-Fi" since the days when the flat earthers first surfaced (and common sense and engineering went out the window)  "don't even have a telephone in the same room as your speakers or the SQ will be degraded"    Oh  and Mr Belt and all his nonsense some right rib ticklers there.

Went active some time ago and I doubt I'd ever return to my callow youth box swapping ways but the're probably not for everyone.  Now I just enjoy the music one thing I'd agree with though.  Not many Pro-Audio monitors have much in the way of WAF my ADAMs are pug ugly but that was easily solved I divorced the wife.   Those ribbon tweeters are much less strident  :)    

Keep smiling ohhhh and don't forget to listen to the music   

 

 

 

__________________

Synology D213 Air -  MF V link - MF1DAC- ADAM A7X plus ADAM Sub 8  MFHP1  and Bottle Head Crack (with speedball mod)  headphone amps Senn HD650  

plastic penguin's picture
Offline
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 15537
RE: When should actives be recommended?

BenLaw wrote:

John Duncan wrote:
You both seem quite surprised by this idea...ohhh sure

 

If your post was always designed to be in favour of the recommendation of actives (this thread topic) when there was a possibility they fulfil an OP's needs, then great. Any surprise is because of the recent spate of objection to any post recommending actives, as has been the case from PP, AL and jjbomber of late. Your recent very silly isolated quote re the PMC YouTube video showed that you may be similarly biased, but glad to see that's not the case  Smile

Hey, please leave me out of your posts. I've never heard actives nor do I have any plans to.

__________________

Amp: Leema Pulse; Source: Naim CD5i-2, Denon 260MKII, Pro-ject XP I; Speakers: PMC TB2i

 

Formerly known as plastic penguin

the record spot's picture
Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 9010
RE: When should actives be recommended?

It seems that some owners of some actives, or proponents of same appear to have a great love of the word "silly".  With an occasional condescending tone to go with it....

Anyway, yes, actives, by all means, just a good thing the OP hasn't gone for the current crop of 9.1 Red Spots with their apparent issues with some Apple gear.  Not sure why that wasn't picked up by AVI in testing the new 9.1s mind.

__________________

 

Onkyo TX-NR818 / Tannoy DC4 speakers / Marantz UD-7007

AVI Lab Series & Marantz CD63 MkII KI CD players / various cables 

daveh75's picture
Offline
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 8216
RE: When should actives be recommended?

Overdose wrote:
So using the speakers from the TV rather than traditional sources? Contraversial. Yes, HDMI would be handy.

 

If you can't use the TV as a pre-amp/hub of sorts, because it doesn't provide the connections/functionality then it would be handy if you could connect HDMI sources directly.

__________________

 

 

Covenanter's picture
Offline
Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Posts: 964
RE: When should actives be recommended?

If you've heard anything, actives or whatever, and you like them then buy them.

What is hard ro bear is the messianic posts of a particular make of actives who would tell you to but them if you asked for advice on a food processor! :rofl: 

As for any theoretical advantage of actives I'm sorry bit I don't buy that; that's all a one with the looney cable posters to this forum - the "my ears can't be wrong" brigade.

Chris

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 1858
RE: When should actives be recommended?

BenLaw wrote:

John Duncan wrote:
You both seem quite surprised by this idea...ohhh sure

 

If your post was always designed to be in favour of the recommendation of actives (this thread topic) when there was a possibility they fulfil an OP's needs, then great. Any surprise is because of the recent spate of objection to any post recommending actives, as has been the case from PP, AL and jjbomber of late. Your recent very silly isolated quote re the PMC YouTube video showed that you may be similarly biased, but glad to see that's not the case  Smile

You can leave me out, too. i've owned and recommended actives. it's the often inappropriate spamming of a particular brand I object to.

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 1858
RE: When should actives be recommended?

BenLaw wrote:

John Duncan wrote:
You both seem quite surprised by this idea...ohhh sure

 

If your post was always designed to be in favour of the recommendation of actives (this thread topic) when there was a possibility they fulfil an OP's needs, then great. Any surprise is because of the recent spate of objection to any post recommending actives, as has been the case from PP, AL and jjbomber of late. Your recent very silly isolated quote re the PMC YouTube video showed that you may be similarly biased, but glad to see that's not the case  Smile

You can leave me out, too. i've owned and recommended actives. it's the often inappropriate spamming of a particular brand I object to.

lindsayt's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Apr 2011
Posts: 974
Marketing, marketing, marketing

In the 1970’s to 1980’s Ivor Tiefenbrun used reverse engineering marketing for the Linn LP12. He took every feature of the LP12, good, bad or indifferent and discussed it in a way that made the LP12 way of doing things seem like the best way and any alternative ways of doing things were said to be inferior.

 

For example: the LP12 is belt drive. “Belt drive is the best as it isolates the motor from the platter”. “Idler drives rumble and direct drives suffer from cogging and motor noise.”

The LP12 is a suspended design. “Suspended decks are better because they provide isolation.”

The LP12 used an AC motor. “AC motors are more musical.”

 

He also used a siege mentality so that whenever anyone criticised the sound of the LP12 the blame was never put on the turntable itself, but on the person doing the criticising so that they were either “deaf” or not using the right listening methods, not using the tunedem method, or they were just Linn knockers, or they were stuck in the old ways where speakers were said to be the most important component when they should be applying GIGO.

 

There was also a certain amount of Neuro Linguistic Programming, so that certain words were associated with the LP12: “musical”, “tuneful”.

 

This marketing was powerful enough to get dealers, hi-fi journalists and Linn owners to repeat his marketing for him.

 

 

Ashley James has been using similar marketing methods with AVI.

 

The AVI ADM9’s are small, ported, 2 way active speakers with a DAC and pre-amp section built in.

 

So: “active speakers are best because of the distortion in passive crossovers.”

“Small speakers are best because they image better than speakers with wide front baffles.”

“Ported is best because almost all modern speakers are ported.”

“Passive speakers boom and tizz”

“2 way speakers are best as you only have 1 cross-over region”

 

 

On the one hand I admire these reverse engineering, siege mentality, NLP marketing techniques, because of the huge sales success that Linn had on the back of them.

 

On the other hand…

Craig M.'s picture
Offline
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 2875
RE: When should actives be recommended?

Covenanter wrote:

As for any theoretical advantage of actives I'm sorry bit I don't buy that; that's all a one with the looney cable posters to this forum - the "my ears can't be wrong" brigade.

Chris

Chris, the advantages of an active crossover are very real.  A bit of time with google will find you all the info you need.

This will get you off to a start.  Clicky and clicky and clicky

__________________

Synology NAS + ATV2 > ADM9RS

Messiah's picture
Offline
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 2751
RE: Marketing, marketing, marketing

Wow!

I have not been on here in months and still cannot believe these arguments are still going on. 

In answer to the OP, on this forum there is no time to mention let alone recommend an active without risking the same 'discussion' breaking out. I can literally go back months and months probably years and find the same type of thread.

I still think the best advise is to listen to a range of gear and make up your own mind. Everyone has a different take on what sounds good.

__________________

System Photos | Netbook (iTunes) | Onkyo ND-S1 | AVI ADM 9.1 | Yamaha Sub | Epoz Aktimate Mini

 

Phileas's picture
Offline
Joined: 5 May 2012
Posts: 244
RE: Marketing, marketing, marketing

lindsayt wrote:
In the 1970’s to 1980’s Ivor Tiefenbrun used reverse engineering marketing for the Linn LP12....

 ...Ashley James has been using similar marketing methods with AVI.

These two people are remarkably similar, are they by any chance related? I think we should be told!

__________________

Main: SqueezeBox Classic>AVI ADM40

Second: SqueezeBox Touch>AVI ADM9RSS

ID.
ID.'s picture
Offline
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 1320
RE: When should actives be recommended?

I think both sides can be a bit annoying. I think that if it's within the budget, or thereabouts, it's fine to suggest them, especially because many people aren't even aware of actives (although if they have more than a few posts in this forum, they must've read about actives/AVI).

It's the fact that the suggestion is almost always together with highly repetitive cliches, being dergatory about passive speakers (boom tizz, not everyone can handle the honesty of actives, actives are always technically superiorthus guaranteed to sound better...).

On the other hand, there's no need to let a suggestion of actives rustle your jimmies just because the OP originally only talked about changing a certain component, and calling out the person prescribing actives only means the thread turns into another argument that is of no use to the OP.

 

__________________

Desk-Fi: Mac Mini - NuForce Icon HDP - Fostex PM0.4n - Audio Technica ATH900x - Sennnheiser HD595 - Grado SR80i

Bedroom system: Esoteric RZ-1 - PMC DB1i / iPod Classic - Onkyo NDS1000 - Firestone Audio FUBAR IV

JMacMan's picture
Offline
Joined: 9 Nov 2012
Posts: 237
RE: Marketing, marketing, marketing

lindsayt wrote:

In the 1970’s to 1980’s Ivor Tiefenbrun used reverse engineering marketing for the Linn LP12. He took every feature of the LP12, good, bad or indifferent and discussed it in a way that made the LP12 way of doing things seem like the best way and any alternative ways of doing things were said to be inferior.

 

For example: the LP12 is belt drive. “Belt drive is the best as it isolates the motor from the platter”. “Idler drives rumble and direct drives suffer from cogging and motor noise.”

The LP12 is a suspended design. “Suspended decks are better because they provide isolation.”

The LP12 used an AC motor. “AC motors are more musical.”

 

He also used a siege mentality so that whenever anyone criticised the sound of the LP12 the blame was never put on the turntable itself, but on the person doing the criticising so that they were either “deaf” or not using the right listening methods, not using the tunedem method, or they were just Linn knockers, or they were stuck in the old ways where speakers were said to be the most important component when they should be applying GIGO.

 

There was also a certain amount of Neuro Linguistic Programming, so that certain words were associated with the LP12: “musical”, “tuneful”.

 

This marketing was powerful enough to get dealers, hi-fi journalists and Linn owners to repeat his marketing for him.

 

 

Ashley James has been using similar marketing methods with AVI.

 

The AVI ADM9’s are small, ported, 2 way active speakers with a DAC and pre-amp section built in.

 

So: “active speakers are best because of the distortion in passive crossovers.”

“Small speakers are best because they image better than speakers with wide front baffles.”

“Ported is best because almost all modern speakers are ported.”

“Passive speakers boom and tizz”

“2 way speakers are best as you only have 1 cross-over region”

 

 

On the one hand I admire these reverse engineering, siege mentality, NLP marketing techniques, because of the huge sales success that Linn had on the back of them.

 

On the other hand…

 

I lived through the Linn/Naim Flat Earth/PRaT marketing thing and well remember all the Linn hype and noise and also how Ivor was famously caught out on some of his early negative claims about digital, by subjecting himself to a Blind ABX test, which he failed....

And then there was the Naim marketing machine and all it's hype and bluster... "You're nobody without a Naim" etc....

It certainly seems that the marketing of many HiFi products in an ever decreasing niche market leads to some claims that should be taken with a grain of salt when there is no supporting measurable or controlled listening test evidence.

 

JMac