My point is that some manufacturers, Naim for example, get slagged off on various sections of this forum and AVI's (by AVI advocates) for going to extreme lengths in order to make improvements to their equipment, even if the benefits are minuscule. But AVI do it and it's ok, all for the best, and to be expected. I get that some people will have a dislike for some manufacturers for whatever reason (even if it has been passed onto them by a forum administrator), but to criticise them for things that the criticiser has no experience or understanding of is just wrong and smacks of double standards.
I'm just bringing up a point here, not trying to trying to attract a lynch mob. If we can all learn from it and make the forum a nicer place, great
[edited by mods - please no personal attacks]
Formerly known as Ooh, Boots, etc etc...
Laptop... HTC One X....ATV3....ADM9Ts...Two German Shorthaired Pointers...
This distortion is clearly audible.
We like you. You are funny.
CA StreamMagic 6 | CA 751BD | CA 651A | PMC DB1i
Moderator. mail: john.duncan.whf at the mail of g dot com
Max, you only think you know what you know about Naim because of the forums you frequent. You had no idea before then, and you still don't, because you've probably never heard any. I've done several demos recently where people have chosen the Naim because they liked what they heard. People will either choose what they like the sound of, because they want to enjoy their system, or they'll go by specs and choose something that's as accurate as possible. The two will always exist, so trying to convert people is futile.
David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry
Mitsubishi HC7000 / Oppo BDP103 / Audiolab 8200AP / Rotel RMB1575 / kick ass speaker system
David, am I right in saying that you think all AVI owners slag off Naim at the behest of Ashley James? Because it does appear that that's what you're saying. I think that you should make it clear if that's what you mean. And I think the mods should consider that an attack on anyone here that owns AVI product/s.
Nope. Not all.
(can feel the big red button coming on)
I'll butt out then and let them continue - I just wanted to make a point, which has been done.
Before John locks this one, my point is that doing something which costs nothing, costs nothing, so there's no problem.
But there's no point adding vast amounts to the cost of something to make an inaudible "improvement".
Main: SqueezeBox Classic>AVI ADM40
Second: SqueezeBox Touch>AVI ADM9RSS
Also could an example of an inadequately designed modern amp or dac be given please?
Honest and open information here......
Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts
Depending what 'it' is, is it inaudible though?
However, all well designed, properly implimented DAC's and pre-amps (such as the ones used in the ADM's) have such low levels of distortion and colouration which makes them so similar that as far as anyone can hear, they do sound identical. A good example of this is the cheap Logitech SB Touch which sounds identical to the very expensive Benchmark DAC1 even when compared using £10,000 worth of ATC speakers.
See posts 12 and 13 here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/my-dream-system-oh-maybe-one-day?page=14
And of course, the new DAC that went into the ADM9.1T which superseded the ADM9.1 turned out to have an audible difference too Steve. One of the things Ash quoted a year or two back. Slight, but noticeable. And am improvement if memory serves.
Actually, what is a well designed and properly implemented DAC anyway? Well designed from scratch and apropos of nothing, or well designed and implemented for the application they end up going into? I understood that a good DAC chip is under £1 and a class leading one a little more.
Onkyo TX-8050 / Tannoy Revolution DC4 / Marantz SA7001-KI / Apple TV 3 / Sony PS3 320Gb / Denon DVD-3930
Or I could ask you a bunch of similar questions, or make similar accusations and assumptions to you, but that might also make waves which could lead to consequences, for me.
So you win, David, because I can't get involved like you can, ces't la vie...
If it's any help, I seem to remember that AVI used Wolfson DACs a while ago. Wolfson brought out a revised version which could use a 3 volt supply rather than 5 volt supply to reduce power consumption in mobile uses. Whilst they maintained that the new chip would accept 5 volt power, it ran a bit hot at 5v on 24/192.
I think AVI revised their DAC to take account of the changes in power supply voltage requirement.
It was all quite a while ago though, and didn't seem to affect the sound quality (iirc).
© 2013 Haymarket Publishing