This is exactly what I was referring to. And yes, I do 'do retail'. You obviously don't know how the price structure works.
I think using one amp is fine, as is printing bad reviews so we can avoid them. There is only so much time in the day, and a good ear dont need the right kit to see what things are capable of. Its what come with years of experience. Im sure they swap sources from time to time just to see if there not quite sure.
'A good ear' isn't capable of knowing what a speaker is capable of if it's in the wrong system. Unless you hear a speaker with an amp that can let the speaker do what it's supposed to do, you'll never the speaker at it's best.
just because something doesnt receive top marks doesnt mean it isnt worth a demo - just that it didnt tick all the buttons for the reviewers - you must judge the product yourself!
Ask this of the average WHF reader. Many people won't touch a 4 star product. Why? Because it didn't get 5......and like I said, if the product has passed through 4 or 5 reviewers, they won't all come to the same conclusions.
as for the speaker group test and changing amps... well they are testing speaker not speaker and amp combos! the amps characteristics will be familiar to the reviewers and a constant in the tests therefore making the reviews much easier. plus im sure they would choose an amp that is a good match (read versatile) for the test group.
One amp isn't going to match 7 randomly picked speakers. This is my point.
Interesting you chose to reply to Will's post, 4LKN4, rather than mine, which addresses many of the points you make.
Secondly, if you're in hi-fi retail, I feel you should be open about your identity, rather than pose as a consumer.
We're happy to host manufacturers and retailers as long as they declare their interest!
Group Marketing & PR Manager, Computers Unlimited.
Brands represented include Astell&Kern, Audeze, Audioengine, Canton, HeadsUp, Flexson for SONOS and SONOS
Guys...life is too short!
Why people like to stress about silly thing?
Interesting view, but far from a newbie......I'm not here to turn a thread upside down, I'm merely here to help other people, and if my pointing out a few little things goes against others, then that is no different to WHF going against other mags in their beliefs/decisions.
You can't have a series of demo rooms all sounding totally different.
Our rooms sound different. If everyone buys a product based on the reviewers finding in an expensively treated room, a few are going to find things a little odd when they get home.
You mention the kit they test with. You don't know the kit they've used. Trust me I have read a stack of What Hi-Fi mag reviews where they've mentioned how kit perform with their reference electronics. We're talking Krell and Bryston kit. They often suggest a partner for a winning item, in the price range most appropriate, but that doesn't mean they only used the suggested item to test every component. To assume so would be a little niave. (I hope).
Somtimes the mag will mention the kit used. Sometimes it's never mentioned. And as for using a pair of £500 speakers with £10k of electronics, yes it's a nice little excercise, but pointless regarding the average person. It would be nice to know what electronics/speakers are used to test a product with, as this will explain some of the decisions made.
What Hi-Fi don't work for the trade, they work for their readers. At the very least they try to be neutral.
Like a retailer works for his customers? At the end of the day, as mentioned, it's a business.
I've always found their negative reviews to be fascinating, mostly highly constructive. One only wonders why some manufacturers appear to have stopped listening. (Whatever happened to Mission!).
Yes, reading about a 1 star product is quite funny sometimes, but reading a bad review of a decent product is just infuriating. I fully appreciate that there are some people who just don't like the KEF sound, but these reviews are just going to put off prospective new speaker owners from even trying the KEF's in the first place.I also appreciate (and have noticed in the past) that anyone who says anything remotely negative about WHF, the team or their views, have been pounced upon by those that follow WHF religiously. I understand it when people stick their neck out in defence. But if you do, at least have a decent argument to put forward. I understand that I know I'm on my own here as I haven't posted enough for anyone to know, and many of you will just see me like some of the other idiots who post on here, but I'd just like to say this has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years, and I do have some decent knowledge of products and industry within that period of time, including WHF itself.Like I said, I'm not here to start arguments, and I'm hoping the WHF team are intelligent enough to see that.
this is all down to personnel opinion - as you have mentioned in your experience the kefs are great - all what hi fi does is suggest certain products at certain price points are worth an audition nothing more - they don't so go buy it or else! If i was in a store i would ask to hear all speakers at a price point give or take 10% and let my ears decidethen prob buy something that costs twice as much as i went in with - is that just me???
I'm here as an individual with relevant experience. IF I was a retailer, I'd be here to sell things, which I am not. I am posting in my own time, and will help out people with their individual questions when I feel i have enough knowledge to do so. It's probably not been a great start for me, but in time it will be known that I'm only here to help and share.
Clare and TeamThis is just an observation so will keep it short if poss,you will always get some readers of forums who have to force issues, and no matter how things are explained you will never win.You certainly do not have to justify cost or defend how you do things at What HiFi, i think its fair to say you have a fair few loyal readers and rely like myself on reviews the mag does.Dont allow this forum to be like others, it does not make good reading and spoils the fun that is supposed be for as well as being imformative, as already stated it might be an idea to remove this thread, sorry if you think i am out of order but dont waste your time on threads that are of no relevance, i am all for asking why,or give constructive observations, but not like this thread, so there you go.Great mag Great Forum.Andy
i've actually learnt a lot today regarding what hi fi and how they do things - think its been informative reading and i mean that in a good way
i also appreciate the support i have received and help given by both team and posters
Happy to help in any way - and that includes being open about who we are and what we do. Feel free to ask away if there's anything else you want to know.
I think the issue is, you've made some assumptions about the reviewing process and brought them out as negative issues with WHF. Clare's replied to these assumptions to show how they are actually wrong, but you've not replied on your views of her responses. Do you accept them or not?
At the moment, no one's really come up with any views except that a couple of people don't agree with WHF's review on the KEFs. This is fine in itself and I'm sure everyone is happy that these people like them. The problem comes when someone has to justify their views (probably more to themself than anyone else) with claims of how WHF are biased or their reviewing process must be flawed without any evidence supporting their arguments. This isn't productive at all and gets people annoyed as it's just seen as trolling - something which isn't looked upon favourably here.
The owls are not what they seem...
Well changing the subject slightly,i recently bought a pair of Quad 21l in Piano Black.
I love these speakers so much that am on the look out to get a ÿcd player and ampliflier to enjoy music and get the most out of them.
You should audition them!ÿ
Really guys....stress can make you look older than you really are. Some may suffer hair loss
I can't see any issue in this thread at all. Kef have many praise from WHF for years and years so there is nothing against KEF as a brand.
I haven't heard the pair but I am sure they will sell alright! Kef is a big enough company to carry off one or two bad reviews. If every tested products have been rate 5 stars people do moan, not enough stars people moan again! Why can't people just listen to music instead of worry about star rating?
I think this thread highlights how difficult it is to review products... There are so many review mags with so many different approaches... some have individual reviewers conducting reviews in their own homes, some have panels in accoustically treated rooms, some do sighted testing, others DBT, some take measurements etc... At the end of the day, it's up to the reader to determine which style appeals most to him/her (or sample as many styles as possible - as some of us do)... WHF has it's own style and they state it clearly and are willing to defend it... what more can a reader really ask for?
I read a wide variety of reviews from printed magazines to online review sites... from the UK to the US and Canada... I see no reason why WHF should change to any competitor's style of review... losing their individuality seems foolish to me.... Besides, those other mags also get criticised heavily.... Many American mags almost always have glowing product reviews (and no ratings) - which seems to be what the KEF dealer wants to see at WHF - those mags get attacked regularly as being nothing but advertisements for manufacturers (since they rarely ever have anything bad to say about a product).... Mags that use measurements get attacked because a) measurements don't tell you whether you'll like how a product sounds and b) These mags regularly praise products that measure average to mediocre on their own test equipment (so what's the point of the measurements then?)...
Like any good review mag, WHF tells you to essentially use the mag as a guide of products to audition, but in the end trust your own ears...
Laptop---> M-Audio USB Transit---> Benchmark DAC1 ---> Beyerdynamic DT880 600 OHM
Editor-in-Chief of What Hi-Fi? and whathifi.com