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ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

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galone
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Is there any advantage (sound-wise) in
doing a biwired connection like this :

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/402/esquemaprimero.jpg

rather than this :

http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/339/esquemasegundo.jpg

 

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RobinKidderminster
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

bi amp vs biwire. yes. quite different

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MajorFubar
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Connecting them to different binding posts does not bi-amp them in most instances, unless you're talking certain amps like the Marantz '603.

Generally I'd go with the same set of binding posts, because sometimes when you select 'A+B' on your speaker-switch, additional circuitry is invoked to compensate for the fact that the amp is expecting to see two pairs of speakers in-circuit, not two different drivers in the same unit.

Your amp's instruction manual may tell you if you can bi-wire using both sets of posts, but normally I'd stick to using one set, for the reason I have explained.

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Crossie
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

It would help if you tell us what amp you are using. You may then get a definitive answer...perhaps...maybe...err.

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BigH
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Thought bi-wiring was a waste of money?

hoopsontoast
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Both Bi-Wiring and horizontal Bi-Amping 'should' not make any difference unless you are using different cables or different amplifiers.

Vertical Bi-Amping may well have an improvement.

 

YMMV.

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MajorFubar
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Think we just need a bit of clarity regarding what people are meaning by 'bi-amping'...

As I stated above, wiring two halves of the cross-over to different pairs of binding-posts on the same amp does NOT, in most instances, bi-amp the speakers.

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hoopsontoast
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Yes, Bi-Amping requires two seperate amplifiers:

 

 

and more here: http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

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BigColz
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

hoopsontoast wrote:

Yes, Bi-Amping requires two seperate amplifiers:

 

 

and more here: http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

Hence the name  rolling on the floor laughing beauty, eh

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Thompsonuxb
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Yes..... it does depend on how good your speakers and the amp being used is.

 

I wire my speakers as per diagram 1.  One side driving 1 speaker - I.E side A ( of A & B) driving the left speaker tops and bass and B driving the right as per that config. It does sound better cleaner and more seperated but it depends on your amp and speakers - in my tests it sounds better than the other config - 2 runs from a single channel.

but if you have the cable try them for yourself and decide if you notice a difference and decide which is your preference.

 

note: it does not affet volume.

Benedict_Arnold
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

I have a couple of questions regarding the speakers in a bi-wire system.  Forgive me if they've been asked before, but here goes:

Background:

In the old days back in England I used to use a Cyrus system with a Pre-X driving twin X-powers, in twin mono configuration, in turn driving a pair of ProAc Studio 140s.  No problems.  Great sound.  No need to or thoughts of messign with it except to upgrade, in time, to full Mono-X power amps.

Now back in the US, my current speakers, Klipsch Reference 42 floorstanders - a Chrimbo pressie from the wife and part of the surround sound system - are bi-wired.  Like most speakers these days with bi-wire terminals, they were shipped with brass or copper strip "shunts" to bridge the plus and minus terminals to each other (i.e. high plus to low plus, high minus to low minus) in case the purchaser didn't want to bi-wire.  I did, so these shunts were taken off and put back in the boxes.  The speakers are bi-wired to an Onkyo TX-NR717 7.1 receiver using the bi-amp capabilities of that receiver, i.e using the main left and right speaker outputs to drive the tweeters and the far-left and far-right (or high-front-left and high-front-right - I forget which) to drive the woofers.

Now the questions:

1. Given the bi-wire capable designs of such speakers, are there actually still crossovers inside the cabinets in most cases?

2. If the answer to1 is "yes" what is the point of bi-wiring anyway?

3. if the answer to 1 is "no" are the "shunts" I mentioned above the de facto crossovers and is this why speakers with such "shunts" often sound lousy unless they are bi-wired, or do they simply convey the same signal to the woofers and tweeters and let the woofers and tweeters sort out what they're going to respond to themselves?

4. If the answer to 1 is "yes" and I were crazy enough to decide to pull out the crossovers and junk them, wire the speakers directly to the terminals on the backs of the cabinets, should I wire each speaker "cone" (tweeter, woofer, and in many case mid-range) to each pair of speaker terminals or wire the tweeters only to the HF terminals, the woofers to the LF terminals?  What do I do with the mid-range cones?

5. Given I was mad enough, or bored enough, to attempt 4, what should I use as speaker wire inside the cabinets?  The same as I use from the amp to the speakers or something heavy duty, e.g. 12 or even 10-gauge multi-strand?

Thompsonuxb
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Benedict_Arnold wrote:

I have a couple of questions regarding the speakers in a bi-wire system.  Forgive me if they've been asked before, but here goes:

Background:

In the old days back in England I used to use a Cyrus system with a Pre-X driving twin X-powers, in twin mono configuration, in turn driving a pair of ProAc Studio 140s.  No problems.  Great sound.  No need to or thoughts of messign with it except to upgrade, in time, to full Mono-X power amps.

Now back in the US, my current speakers, Klipsch Reference 42 floorstanders - a Chrimbo pressie from the wife and part of the surround sound system - are bi-wired.  Like most speakers these days with bi-wire terminals, they were shipped with brass or copper strip "shunts" to bridge the plus and minus terminals to each other (i.e. high plus to low plus, high minus to low minus) in case the purchaser didn't want to bi-wire.  I did, so these shunts were taken off and put back in the boxes.  The speakers are bi-wired to an Onkyo TX-NR717 7.1 receiver using the bi-amp capabilities of that receiver, i.e using the main left and right speaker outputs to drive the tweeters and the far-left and far-right (or high-front-left and high-front-right - I forget which) to drive the woofers.

Now the questions:

1. Given the bi-wire capable designs of such speakers, are there actually still crossovers inside the cabinets in most cases?

2. If the answer to1 is "yes" what is the point of bi-wiring anyway?

3. if the answer to 1 is "no" are the "shunts" I mentioned above the de facto crossovers and is this why speakers with such "shunts" often sound lousy unless they are bi-wired, or do they simply convey the same signal to the woofers and tweeters and let the woofers and tweeters sort out what they're going to respond to themselves?

4. If the answer to 1 is "yes" and I were crazy enough to decide to pull out the crossovers and junk them, wire the speakers directly to the terminals on the backs of the cabinets, should I wire each speaker "cone" (tweeter, woofer, and in many case mid-range) to each pair of speaker terminals or wire the tweeters only to the HF terminals, the woofers to the LF terminals?  What do I do with the mid-range cones?

5. Given I was mad enough, or bored enough, to attempt 4, what should I use as speaker wire inside the cabinets?  The same as I use from the amp to the speakers or something heavy duty, e.g. 12 or even 10-gauge multi-strand?

 

If you have taken off the "shunts" then you have bypassed the crossover - to prove this disconnect one set of terminals, you'll find only the connected speaker works - the cross over only comes into play when a single run of wire is used, you do not need to open the boxes.

if i read you right you have one set of outputs ( speaker A) controlling the tops and speaker B controlling the bass - this config I'm sure causes an imbalance  in the amp output (now i could be wrong) but if you're driving both A & B the tweeters are less of a load than the mid bass driver and this could hurt your amp over time (like I said, I could be wrong) the other config is more 'balanced'

If you have 3 sets of binding post it'll mean you have a 3 way design, if you only have 2 then ethier the mids and bass or the mids and tops are connected by a crossover, in which case still wire as if dealing with two drivers......

MeanandGreen
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Benedict_Arnold wrote:

I have a couple of questions regarding the speakers in a bi-wire system.  Forgive me if they've been asked before, but here goes:

Background:

In the old days back in England I used to use a Cyrus system with a Pre-X driving twin X-powers, in twin mono configuration, in turn driving a pair of ProAc Studio 140s.  No problems.  Great sound.  No need to or thoughts of messign with it except to upgrade, in time, to full Mono-X power amps.

Now back in the US, my current speakers, Klipsch Reference 42 floorstanders - a Chrimbo pressie from the wife and part of the surround sound system - are bi-wired.  Like most speakers these days with bi-wire terminals, they were shipped with brass or copper strip "shunts" to bridge the plus and minus terminals to each other (i.e. high plus to low plus, high minus to low minus) in case the purchaser didn't want to bi-wire.  I did, so these shunts were taken off and put back in the boxes.  The speakers are bi-wired to an Onkyo TX-NR717 7.1 receiver using the bi-amp capabilities of that receiver, i.e using the main left and right speaker outputs to drive the tweeters and the far-left and far-right (or high-front-left and high-front-right - I forget which) to drive the woofers.

Now the questions:

1. Given the bi-wire capable designs of such speakers, are there actually still crossovers inside the cabinets in most cases?

2. If the answer to1 is "yes" what is the point of bi-wiring anyway?

3. if the answer to 1 is "no" are the "shunts" I mentioned above the de facto crossovers and is this why speakers with such "shunts" often sound lousy unless they are bi-wired, or do they simply convey the same signal to the woofers and tweeters and let the woofers and tweeters sort out what they're going to respond to themselves?

4. If the answer to 1 is "yes" and I were crazy enough to decide to pull out the crossovers and junk them, wire the speakers directly to the terminals on the backs of the cabinets, should I wire each speaker "cone" (tweeter, woofer, and in many case mid-range) to each pair of speaker terminals or wire the tweeters only to the HF terminals, the woofers to the LF terminals?  What do I do with the mid-range cones?

5. Given I was mad enough, or bored enough, to attempt 4, what should I use as speaker wire inside the cabinets?  The same as I use from the amp to the speakers or something heavy duty, e.g. 12 or even 10-gauge multi-strand?

Bi-wireable speakers do have crossovers in them, if you biwire or biamp full range frequencies are still being transmitted down both sets of cables. The crossover is basically a high pass and low pass filter wired to the corresponding drivers. I would NOT remove the crossovers you will end up with full range signals being fed to your drivers.

Removing the shorting links doesn't bypass the crossover. Each driver is wired back through it's own filter, then to the terminals on the back of the speaker cabinet. The links are to allow one cable run to be used. Which brings up the debate why bi-wire? Personally I see no be benefit of bi-wiring and noticed no improvement after doing so with my speakers. Bi-amping on the other hand is supposed to be a different story, though I can't speak from experience on that one.

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Thompsonuxb
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

O.k  I stand corrected  ....... 

BigH
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

Yes they must have cross-overs even when bi-wired. You are correct about different power needed for woofer and tweeters. In active speakers the woofer amp is more powerful than for the tweeter. For example 250W for woofer and 75W for tweeter.

Benedict_Arnold
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RE: ways of biwiring a pair of speakers

The receiver is specifically designed to enable the fronts to be bi-amped as described (in the manual, not necessarily as I recount from memory  above), so it shouldn't be a problem.  If it becomes one, the warranty takes care of it.

Contrary to first thoughts, most people recommend using the higher power amplifier to drive the uppen half of the scale, as this actually uses more power overall.  I was certainly told to do this while I was transiting from a single Cyrus 8-power to an 8-power plus an X-power then finally to twin mono-mode X-powers (not mono-Xs).  Whether this is to do with the frequencies involved (as I was told) or just because the bass just makes the occasional "thump" so the average power consumption is lower, I don't know.  All the outputs from my receiver are rated to the same power, however, so it's probably a moot ("mute" if it goes belly-up?) point.  I've used the main fronts for the main front trebles and the second pair for the basses.

As for bi-amping vs. a bigger single stereo amp, the benefits are clear to hear.  I'll let someone else get all testicle about why.  From experience, I just know it sounds best in "vertical" bi-amped mode.