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matt49's picture
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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

David@FrankHarvey wrote:

matt49 wrote:
Fortunately I'm (ahem) not that keen on Adele.

Nor me. It was just an artist and album that I knew would be on vinyl and CD, and being a modern recording, should favour digital.

the best comparisons will be with classical music: well recorded and mastered, wide dynamic range, natural instruments. Opera is particularly good. I'm going to do some more demos in the next couple of  weeks.

The history book on the shelf / Is always repeating itself 

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

Lorde - Pure Heroine is a modern recording

On vinyl it sounds fantastic & wipes the floor with the CD

However, I am not a Adele fan (missus) and the CD wipes the floor with the Vinyl - the Vinyl is shocking but so is the CD - Loudness wars run riot again no dynamics, painful to listen too as is Ceremonials by Florence.

Im out of here off to listen to some Moody Blues early 70s recording

 

Michell / Icon Audio / Kudos

 

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

I've been listening to Peter Bucks first album (only availlable on vinyl) via Youtube today. Can't find his second. Heh.

I'm hungry. Who is Waldorf and how do I get one of their salads?

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

I have to say that there were two 'events' that allowed me to give up vinyl and switch to digital. Up until these, I was prepared to pay the rather large sums required for top class vinyl playback up until this time.

The first occasion, I was able to compare a top end SME30A/Koetsu/ARC Reference setup with a top of the line Wadia transport and a couple of DACs and with appropriate and pristine vinyl it was genuinly very difficult to hear a difference at all.

This caused me some thought, so I tried recording vinyl onto CDR, and comparing. In this case again their was no difference that I could hear. Several hi-quality systems were used, including my home ARC/Martin Logan system.

 

As an interesting followup to this we invited a couple of customers to hear our top vinyl system playing a familiar record. Of course although the record player could be seen playing, the music was coming from the CDR. When we lifted the stylus and removed the LP with the musiv still playing, the customers concerned were very perplexed and a bit angry at being 'conned'.

We didn't do it again.

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

I'm old enough to have grown listening to fm radio, then to vinyl and tapes. I'm not old enough to get a hip replacement. I'm somewhere in the middle. I listen to my record player, my cd player, I listen to flacs and mp3s and sometimes I play a cassette tape. In my car I listen mainly radio. Life/music is beautiful. :cheers:

VPI Scout / Benz Micro Ace L, Moon 310 LP, Audiolab 8200CD, Accuphase E-213, Focal Electra 1008Be

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

The_Lhc wrote:

FennerMachine wrote:
I've potentially got 100+ records if I want them, including about 30 James Last

You say that like it's a good thing?  :O

Well, I like his music!

I have 7 compilation CD's of his music.

I understand he's not everyone’s cup of tea, including most of my friends!

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

stevebrock wrote:

Lorde - Pure Heroine is a modern recording

On vinyl it sounds fantastic & wipes the floor with the CD

That CD is horribly compressed, so you're not really comparing like with like.

This is one of the problems with the "debate". The comparison of digital and vinyl has two aspects: the medium and the playback system. On paper, CD is a superior medium, but in fact many CDs of the last fifteen years have been mastered to sound loud and their dynamic range has been compressed. So LPs may well in some cases have the edge.

A further complication is that when people talk about "music", what they often in fact mean is "the music I listen to". So someone who mainly listens to rock/pop of the last 15 years may well decide that vinyl is superior because s/he is comparing tolerably well mastered LPs with horribly compressed CDs. On the other hand, someone who (like me) mainly listens to classical music won't have this experience at all: the dynamic range of classical recordings is almost always better on CD than on LP. Classical CDs are mastered to appeal to people like us who have decent hi-fi systems, so they're not nastily compressed. (As it happens, there is very little classical stuff on the DR Database, but what there is clearly shows that classical CDs aren't spoilt by compression.)

Of course, you may well say: "why should I care if the CD is compressed or not? The LP sounds better and that's all that matters." But that argument doesn't work for me. I have the choice: well mastered CD or well mastered vinyl? And that's why cost becomes such an important factor for me. I can rip the CD losslessly and play it on a digital front end that cost me £300, and it sounds fantastic. Or I can play an LP on a TT costing an arm and a leg, and it may or may not sound as good or better.

Matt

The history book on the shelf / Is always repeating itself 

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

matt49 wrote:
A further complication is that when people talk about "music", what they often in fact mean is "the music I listen to".

Just like what you mean then?

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

Vinyl can sound really nice, but the medium is so fragile. Maybe it's my personality, but I just can not abide the clicks and pops from damaged records. It used to drive me into a deep depression when I found a much loved (and well cared for) record had become damaged. And in an extension to the famed 'wife' test – try getting a wife g/f to handle your vinyl properly – a short trip to her suing for separation on grounds on mental cruelty and unreasonable behaviour in my experience.

 

I was an early adopter of CD, and at the start it did sound dog rough. But we've come a long way and now most CD players do a pretty good. Also if you love music there are some fabulous bargains these days – for example the box sets made available for the Verdi bicentenary, and Britten centenary last year.  

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

The_Lhc wrote:

matt49 wrote:
A further complication is that when people talk about "music", what they often in fact mean is "the music I listen to".

Just like what you mean then?

Of course.

The history book on the shelf / Is always repeating itself 

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

davedotco wrote:

I have to say that there were two 'events' that allowed me to give up vinyl and switch to digital. Up until these, I was prepared to pay the rather large sums required for top class vinyl playback up until this time.

The first occasion, I was able to compare a top end SME30A/Koetsu/ARC Reference setup with a top of the line Wadia transport and a couple of DACs and with appropriate and pristine vinyl it was genuinly very difficult to hear a difference at all.

This caused me some thought, so I tried recording vinyl onto CDR, and comparing. In this case again their was no difference that I could hear. Several hi-quality systems were used, including my home ARC/Martin Logan system.

 

As an interesting followup to this we invited a couple of customers to hear our top vinyl system playing a familiar record. Of course although the record player could be seen playing, the music was coming from the CDR. When we lifted the stylus and removed the LP with the musiv still playing, the customers concerned were very perplexed and a bit angry at being 'conned'.

We didn't do it again. nice one also have the same feeling with both formats ilike both and cd can sound amazing as lps can  as well,, but cd and streaming from qobuz is now my main music choice ,and so much user freindy and really sounds as good as vinyl imho so really its each to there own.. ps qobus is music lovers paradise go on try it try leonard cohen ten new songs a brilliant listen.

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

drummerman wrote:

Anyways, one of those albums I have on both formats is Branford Marsalis 'Random Abstract'.

All subjectiv of course;

On vinyl; Involving, dynamic and with superb resolution througout the frequency range. Bass hits hard and clean, the trumpet is live (life) like hanging just in front of the speakers plane about man height. Drums have real impact and delicately struck high hats are just that, absolutely lovely to listen to. The whole thing is knitted together beautifully without that sometimes 'wrong' almost phasey spatial resolution that especially high bit players exhibit. Piano again is wonderful with texture and impact.

CD; Clean, orderly but 'flat' with no real depth perspective. High hats almost seem distorted and the signal just seems suddenly to end without that dissappearance into space. - There is more subjective separation to the players but the downside is the play apart rather than together, there is less cohesion which, to me anyway, distracts from the music. Piano tinkels away with no real passion, its difficult to make out keys being struck with different force.

I have no reason to believe the CD is not recorded from the original as it was produced by the same company but it sounds very different. Less enjoyable only because I also have the vinyl to compare with.

What I'm saying here is not that vinyl sounds better than CD, it doesn't always and to be honest, it doesn't matter to me sometimes, but its a source to be taken seriously. When it is good it is seriously good.  It's longevity surely being proof enough but for those doubters out there, do yourself a favour and get a Turntable and some nice vinyl if you can.

So many starting collecting vinyl again can't be wrong.

regards

 

Are you sure about all that? Trumpet?

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

BigH wrote:

 

Are you sure about all that? Trumpet?

Well spotted

Regards

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

Yep. If it sounds like a trumpet there is something wrong with your system. Smile

Get the drift though.

 

Motto: Never pay full price for anything, there is always room to haggle!

Tom Evans Audio Design amplification / Acoustic Zen speakers.

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RE: Vinyl vs. Digital (CD)

BigH wrote:

drummerman wrote:

Anyways, one of those albums I have on both formats is Branford Marsalis 'Random Abstract'.

All subjectiv of course;

On vinyl; Involving, dynamic and with superb resolution througout the frequency range. Bass hits hard and clean, the trumpet is live (life) like hanging just in front of the speakers plane about man height. Drums have real impact and delicately struck high hats are just that, absolutely lovely to listen to. The whole thing is knitted together beautifully without that sometimes 'wrong' almost phasey spatial resolution that especially high bit players exhibit. Piano again is wonderful with texture and impact.

CD; Clean, orderly but 'flat' with no real depth perspective. High hats almost seem distorted and the signal just seems suddenly to end without that dissappearance into space. - There is more subjective separation to the players but the downside is the play apart rather than together, there is less cohesion which, to me anyway, distracts from the music. Piano tinkels away with no real passion, its difficult to make out keys being struck with different force.

I have no reason to believe the CD is not recorded from the original as it was produced by the same company but it sounds very different. Less enjoyable only because I also have the vinyl to compare with.

What I'm saying here is not that vinyl sounds better than CD, it doesn't always and to be honest, it doesn't matter to me sometimes, but its a source to be taken seriously. When it is good it is seriously good.  It's longevity surely being proof enough but for those doubters out there, do yourself a favour and get a Turntable and some nice vinyl if you can.

So many starting collecting vinyl again can't be wrong.

regards

Are you sure about all that? Trumpet?

ROFL

A typo I'm sure. Everyone knows Branford plays clarinet........ :doh:

Or is it flugelhorn......... :?

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