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Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

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domenn's picture
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http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?2046-An-honest-apprais...

 

 

scroll down to post 179 there is that video  

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

Heard a Harman Kardon cd player from the 90's this weekend, it sounded so digital, it was HappyMeal toy sound. The measurements can show one thing with a sinus curve but the (h)ear has to decide.

BigH's picture
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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

More expensive turntables sound closer to digital.

 

Some of the early cdp did not sound very good.

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

Given that vinyl is a contact and CD is non-contact, does it make any difference when played in ordinary or real time?

This is the main problem I have with these scientific studies.

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

BigH wrote:

More expensive turntables sound closer to digital.

Or more expensive cds sound closer to vinyl.

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

plastic penguin wrote:

Given that vinyl is a contact and CD is non-contact, does it make any difference when played in ordinary or real time?

This is the main problem I have with these scientific studies.

 

The problem I have with this is I don't understand what you mean.

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

Vinyl vs CD is such a 1980s debate. We all know why we use either (or both, or neither) and we have had up to 30 years to decide.

I started buying CDs around 1996 and didn't let go of vinyl completely until a few years ago. I always bought new LPs (or s/h in excellent condition). I always had them cleaned on my record dealer's Keith Monks machine before 1st use and always looked after them. (Anti-stat inner sleeves too.)

Stylii were regularly brushed and replaced long before necessity forced the issue.  Records were regularly gone over with a carbon fibre brush before play. They were stored correctly and I never experienced the clicks / pops / scratches etc. that plagued many users. A warped record would never have been purchased (or returned for exchange / refund as soon as discovered). TT drive belts were replaced long before they needed new ones.

My cartridges were always carefully aligned and set for recommended tracking force and were always pretty decent examples of their kind. (Like the Goldring 1042 that I used - with two stylus replacements - for 11 years.)

I made pristine recordings of many albums (and made many and varied compilations) onto brand-new TDK tapes on decent cassette players like the Yamaha KX580 SE or the old Sony Walkman 'Pro'.  Partly for convenience and partly to keep albums in good nick.

This carried on until about 2007 when I finally decided enough-was-enough and sold the TT then gave away the cassette player (and tapes) to my older brother.

I had used a CD player (on and off) since 1996 and had a reasonable collection of classical and jazz CDs and a big collection of BBC CDs (drama, comedies, history etc.) and other stuff that simply could not be obtained on LPs.

Despite all the above vinylations, BBC FM radio had always been my 'primary' source since my teens and a decent FM tuner + roof aerial was always at least as important as any turntable. My migration away from LPs didn't start with CDs but with a combination of changing taste and the emergence of DACs.  I used my first DAC - a Firestone Audio USB one - with an Arcam Solo-Mini and there was no looking back. I was hooked on iPlayer Radio and ripping my CDs. 

I had a slight 'stutter' with an impulse purchase Rega P2 a few years ago, but soon realised my error and sold it - virtually unused - to a fellow local forum member here.

The final remaining (and best) of my old vinyl was sold a few months ago to remove any lingering temptation.

So oscilloscopes, lab tests, stupid CD vs vinyl debates etc. had no bearing at all on my move from vinyl.  It was the sheer relief of shedding the 'faffage' expended on vinyl care / vinyl use and my discovery of the DAC (and the world it opened up) and a change in my tastes (and lack of choice on LP) that drove it.

I still love a good turntable as a 'thing'.  But - like the steam locomotive - they are a labour of love that I am happy to leave to the enthusiasts (along with debates about which is better).

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

BigH wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

Given that vinyl is a contact and CD is non-contact, does it make any difference when played in ordinary or real time?

This is the main problem I have with these scientific studies.

 

The problem I have with this is I don't understand what you mean.

All these clever graphs makes no audible difference in a normal house with children running around. Does it really matter if the vinyl graph is wobbly while the cd is still?

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

Scientist trying to explain how things work to vinyl lovers.

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

plastic penguin wrote:

BigH wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

Given that vinyl is a contact and CD is non-contact, does it make any difference when played in ordinary or real time?

This is the main problem I have with these scientific studies.

 

The problem I have with this is I don't understand what you mean.

All these clever graphs makes no audible difference in a normal house with children running around. Does it really matter if the vinyl graph is wobbly while the cd is still?

Well not everyone lives in a normal house, who wants kids running round when you are playing the hifi? In that case you may as well get a Sony mini system for £60.

 

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

chebby wrote:

Vinyl vs CD is such a 1980s debate. We all know why we use either (or both, or neither) and we have had up to 30 years to decide.

I started buying CDs around 1996 and didn't let go of vinyl completely until a few years ago. I always bought new LPs (or s/h in excellent condition). I always had them cleaned on my record dealer's Keith Monks machine before 1st use and always looked after them. (Anti-stat inner sleeves too.)

Stylii were regularly brushed and replaced long before necessity forced the issue.  Records were regularly gone over with a carbon fibre brush before play. They were stored correctly and I never experienced the clicks / pops / scratches etc. that plagued many users. A warped record would never have been purchased (or returned for exchange / refund as soon as discovered). TT drive belts were replaced long before they needed new ones.

My cartridges were always carefully aligned and set for recommended tracking force and were always pretty decent examples of their kind. (Like the Goldring 1042 that I used - with two stylus replacements - for 11 years.)

I made pristine recordings of many albums (and made many and varied compilations) onto brand-new TDK tapes on decent cassette players like the Yamaha KX580 SE or the old Sony Walkman 'Pro'.  Partly for convenience and partly to keep albums in good nick.

This carried on until about 2007 when I finally decided enough-was-enough and sold the TT then gave away the cassette player (and tapes) to my older brother.

I had used a CD player (on and off) since 1996 and had a reasonable collection of classical and jazz CDs and a big collection of BBC CDs (drama, comedies, history etc.) and other stuff that simply could not be obtained on LPs.

Despite all the above vinylations, BBC FM radio had always been my 'primary' source since my teens and a decent FM tuner + roof aerial was always at least as important as any turntable. My migration away from LPs didn't start with CDs but with a combination of changing taste and the emergence of DACs.  I used my first DAC - a Firestone Audio USB one - with an Arcam Solo-Mini and there was no looking back. I was hooked on iPlayer Radio and ripping my CDs. 

I had a slight 'stutter' with an impulse purchase Rega P2 a few years ago, but soon realised my error and sold it - virtually unused - to a fellow local forum member here.

The final remaining (and best) of my old vinyl was sold a few months ago to remove any lingering temptation.

So oscilloscopes, lab tests, stupid CD vs vinyl debates etc. had no bearing at all on my move from vinyl.  It was the sheer relief of shedding the 'faffage' expended on vinyl care / vinyl use and my discovery of the DAC (and the world it opened up) and a change in my tastes (and lack of choice on LP) that drove it.

I still love a good turntable as a 'thing'.  But - like the steam locomotive - they are a labour of love that I am happy to leave to the enthusiasts (along with debates about which is better).

 

I thinks it more for people new to hifi or vinyl.

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

There is nothing new in Alan's video, vinyl LPs have worse performance than CDs in every measure (except maximum frequency, which is irrelevant to anyone old enough to post on this forum).

However, while not as faithful to the original recording as a CD, some listeners do prefer the 'vinyl sound'. Funny things humans, but there you go - ultimately it is the listener's preference that matters.

 

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

andyjm wrote:

There is nothing new in Alan's video, vinyl LPs have worse performance than CDs in every measure (except maximum frequency, which is irrelevant to anyone old enough to post on this forum).

However, while not as faithful to the original recording as a CD, some listeners do prefer the 'vinyl sound'. Funny things humans, but there you go - ultimately it is the listener's preference that matters.

I agree that, taken in isolation, the video doesn't tell us much that we didn't already know. But the context is more important than the video itself. And the context is a debate about why and on what grounds people prefer vinyl to digital. Some vinyl enthusiasts do continue to argue that vinyl consistently presents a different sound from digital, and that their preference for the "analogue sound" isn't merely subjective.

What's the nature of the acoustic signature of vinyl, and why do people prefer it? It seems to me this is actually an interesting question, and simply saying that vinyl is worse doesn't answer it.

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

andyjm wrote:

There is nothing new in Alan's video, vinyl LPs have worse performance than CDs in every measure (except maximum frequency, which is irrelevant to anyone old enough to post on this forum).

However, while not as faithful to the original recording as a CD, some listeners do prefer the 'vinyl sound'. Funny things humans, but there you go - ultimately it is the listener's preference that matters.

 

Even when the evidence is there, Audiophiles will still find a way to dismiss it..  Like you said funny humams..

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

BigH wrote:

Well not everyone lives in a normal house, who wants kids running round when you are playing the hifi? In that case you may as well get a Sony mini system for £60.

 

Amazingly, many of us into HiFi have also exercised our right to multiply. 

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RE: Vinyl vs cd in the lab -take 2

MajorFubar wrote:

BigH wrote:

Well not everyone lives in a normal house, who wants kids running round when you are playing the hifi? In that case you may as well get a Sony mini system for £60.

 

Amazingly, many of us into HiFi have also exercised our right to multiply. 

and suceeded without any tweeters pushed in Smile

 

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