I have another theory. Often, the noise floor of records is much higher than that of a good digital recording.
This 'fills' the gaps between notes, making for a more cohesive 'whole'. The brain has to work less hard to decipher and piece together the information.
Look at equipment like Cambridge Audio's 840's and other, very good measuring stuff. All the detail you could want but somehow it doesn't come together into a musical whole (for some people). Other equipment, perhaps not so acurate measuring, sounds more cohesive.
I am broadly generalising and I myself err on the side of accuracy for preference but could it be that there can be to much detail, to much stereo separation etc?
A point in case was a recent swap of cartridges on one of my TT's. I replaced a Ortofon with a shibata tipped AT. More separation, better highs ... more musical? No.
Pretty ... and pretty proud of it
Agreed, the 1st two paragraphs here explain in good detail. http://sound.westhost.com/dynamic-range.htm
No offence taken - I don't really have a view, having never compared vinyl and digital under test conditions. What does interest me is the number of people (including friends whose views I'm reluctant to dismiss) who prefer vinyl to digital despite evidence to the contrary which I find quite persuasive. Paul McGowan is a hifi designer and enthusiast whose views should not be easily discounted. So tell me, why does a legacy device with an inferior dynamic range which with every play corrupts the vinyl on which it depends still command the loyalty of so many?
Define 'so many'.
Only a very small percentage of music consumed is vinyl.
Nostalgia is your answer.
I agree LP sales are very low. It also trendy, fashionable among the young because they never had turntables before, makes me laugh that that they even put vinyl sound effects on some recordings. The problem with recent cd issues is the dynamic range is not used, its produced for the mp3 player and is compressed to sound louder which some say sells more, so yes it maybe OK for headphones ina noisy enviroment or in the car but its not so good on a hifi system. As for sounding more live thats complete rubbish, they say that Americans rarely listen to live music maybe this is why you get these comments.
Am I right in thinking that people who listen predominantly to classical music tend to express a preference for vinyl over CD much less often? It's just an impression I've formed, and it may be quite wrong.
If it's right, I can think of two possible explanations. 1. compression on classical CDs isn't really an issue; sure it's used, but much more sensitively, presumably because there's a tradition of selling classical CDs to an "audiophile" (dread word!) market and not for listening via iPods/earbuds. 2. vinyl is by its nature less bright (because it's less transparent), and the softer sound of vinyl is appealing with pop/rock, which with its prominent percussion and electronic instruments can tend towards harshness.
What classical music are you listening to?
surely a cd 'rip' of a vinyl recording is only sampling the waveform with digital steps, then converted with a dac. is some information lost? should it sound slightly less warm for example
Not in my experience , I have transfered many rare LP's to CDR in a very simple way by using a Phillips CDR 760 Cd recorder Direcly from my LP12 via the equipment in my signature in real time and adding track numbers manually as the recording progresses because the auto track numbering from analogue is unreliable due to the high noise floor of vinyl .
The CDR recording captures all the warmth , character , and pleasing colorations of vinyl played on an LP12 perfectly and sounds exactly the same as the original IMO !
Just to add the CDR760 player /recorder used to convert the analogue signal to digital has a very good ADC inside but the CDR copies were played back on my Electrocompaniet EMC1UP cd player .
Electrocompaniet EMC1UP Cd player , EC 4.7 pre , AW120 DMB power amp , PMC PB1i speakers . Isotek Titan / Nova , Nordost SPM speaker cable , Kimber KCAG balanced interconnects .
Linn LP12 Lingo , Ittok lv3 , Lyra Lydian , EAR834P .
"Everything should be as simple as possible, but no simpler." Albert Einstein .
IMO. The Classical music lover may be older (like a lot of people who are into hifi), so may have a TT already, and being older, probably likes the classic stuff that was recorded pre-digital, and probably sounds better than the CDs made from those same recordings.
FWIW. The Linn 24 bit Classical stuff sounds as good as anything I've heard, and better than most.
For Classical on CD, I like Telarc, DG, Linn Records and Harmonia Mundi, to name a few.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
I suspect it may depend on the quality of the mastering on the CDs that they've listened to, as well as the source they have used for the comparison.
I have been lucky enough to have gone from decent TTs, to a great CDP to a very good streamer,......which has given me reasonable insight into how they all compare.
Very much to the point Cno.
The truly crazy thing is that most of the people I see and hear extolling the virtues of vinyl have pretty poor players, often third rate or worse.
My own experience was simply that the better the CD player and the better the record player the closer together they sounded in terms of sound quality.
For a brief period I was able to compare my own player, an SME20A/Red signature with the comparibly priced Wadia 860 and on some recordings the differences were actually difficult to hear, some modern, for the time, Deutsche Grammaphon DDD and DDA releases for example.
Edit for spelling.
Lol...... I think thats the reason for alot of the disagreement on this forum, some systems are just not up to the task.........
saying that is that just plain old snobbery though..... a cheap turntable can sound excellent by any standard if set -up just right.
and the noise floor (hiss) on a turntable no matter how good or dear it is is what stops vinyl from being a serious contender, but if you like that sort of thing then I can see the argument from the other side.
This I agree with this totally - the last bit is about taste/preference though.
me, I love the silence and the seperation it adds so much more drama to music in my mind..... especially accoustic and vocal driven stuff.
Pure, simple, unadulterated logic. Interested in how anyone could disagree. Someone will though
As with other offers I've made, feel free to pop in and compare CD and vinyl...
David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry
Vinyl now available in store!
"Supposedly" inferior dynamic range...
It is an interesting point, and one has to ask how vinyl has pretty much outlasted every single format ever released up to the end of the last century. Will downloads outlast it? Maybe, maybe not. There's a 'collectors' aspect to vinyl, which even if it doesn't sound as good as a HD download, owning a vinyl copy makes you feel like you actually own something. That aside, compare most CD and vinyl counterparts and the digital version normally sounds flatter and more two dimensional, with anti-vinylists bringing up crackles and pops - much like supposed film fans negatively mentioning grain in relation to films...
Over the summer, many of our regulars have been popping in on Saturdays and listening to a lot of vinyl. There's also been CD comparisons, and if the outcome didn't come out in favour of vinyl, many of them wouldn't have bought Michell Gyro SE's, and Rega RP6's and RP8's.
Er no it isn't.
It is pretty easy to tell if someone has any idea what they are talking about, and in this case you have not got a clue.
High end turntables with quality vinyl can sound quite fabulous, sadly there are so few in use now that most people never get to hear them.
Players that are capable of such quality are rare and expensive, especially these days, so few people have experienced the way that a fine player deals with background noise and the other 'limitations' that are handled so poorly on lesser players.
We do so many shows in a row,
And these towns all look the same,
We just pass the time in our hotel room
And wander 'round backstage,
Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,
And we remember why we came.
Yes it is true, I have done it many times myself and the CDR recording of an LP sounds identical to the original LP.
I have done several blind tests so that I did not know which one I was listening to and I found it impossible to hear any difference .
In technical terms, that is impossible. I'm not saying it isn't, but bear in mind that CD has a brick wall 20kHz filter, whereas vinyl has been shown to have information up to around 60kHz.
See I was reading only last night that MP3s sound better than vinyl, and that really all one needs these days is an iPod and speakerettes. I guess all those turntable designers are wasting their time, then.
Made me laugh anyway
© 2014 Haymarket Publishing