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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

spiny norman wrote:

Do I have to say that? Or will some other incantation do?  :shifty:

.

lovecraft works well Smile

spiny norman wrote:
No, you lost me when you started talking about making a hash of it..

 

:grin:  It's a way of testing that files are the same - data integrity, which is what people want for their music I guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5

 

 

spiny norman wrote:

And this happens in real-time, too, does it? Like when you're playing music, not doing something and then going back and comparing when it's finished doing what it's sposed to do?..

 

If it wasn't passing the correct information in real time, you would hear drop outs, not a difference in the tone, volume or soundstage or whatever Hi Fi terms you want to use.  The point of the test is to prove that the usb cable is passing through the same information from one end to another.  Most devices will have a buffer anyways, so it's not "real time" that you are listening to.

 

spiny norman wrote:

Almost as defensive as they do when you dare to challenge their certainties, it seems. 

 

Defensive yes, when people don't want to believe something like proof, yes!

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

shafesk wrote:
not reading the posts correctly today are you? myself and pretty much everybody knows what usb 1,2 and 3 is.....I'm saying that data transfer times also vary between CABLES (not usb standards)

:doh: Cables have to adhere to those standards though.  Providing it meets standard 1, 2 or 3 is how fast you will be able to transfer the data.

 

shafesk wrote:
and the amount of power they can supply to a device also varies.

Power delivered depends on a whole host of other factors as well.

 

shafesk wrote:

Call it audio signal, data or audio data....whatever you want my friend, I'm saying that an audiophile cable would be one which is designed specifically for carrying information from a pc to a dac. 

 

but what is it that makes it specifically designed to carry info from a pc to dac that makes it different from other cables?  Are you able to answer this or are you just going to keep talking about "audiophile" usb cables when you can't even tell me the difference?

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

Andrew Everard wrote:

cheeseboy wrote:
Please can you define the difference between an "audiophile" usb cable and one that isn't "audiophile"?

I believe some USB cables said to be 'audiophile' don't have the power connections, so they only carry data, the claim being that this reduces the potential for interference.

 

thank you Andrew (seriously) for actually trying to help describe what some "audiophile" usb cables may have a difference from a "normal" usb cable.  I'm off to have a butchers..

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

cheeseboy wrote:
lovecraft works well :)

Not something I've ever felt the need to study. Guess I'm naturally gifted in that department. Or it may just be the spines.

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

cheeseboy wrote:

shafesk wrote:
not reading the posts correctly today are you? myself and pretty much everybody knows what usb 1,2 and 3 is.....I'm saying that data transfer times also vary between CABLES (not usb standards)

:doh: Cables have to adhere to those standards though.  Providing it meets standard 1, 2 or 3 is how fast you will be able to transfer the data.

 

shafesk wrote:
and the amount of power they can supply to a device also varies.

Power delivered depends on a whole host of other factors as well.

 

shafesk wrote:

Call it audio signal, data or audio data....whatever you want my friend, I'm saying that an audiophile cable would be one which is designed specifically for carrying information from a pc to a dac. 

 

but what is it that makes it specifically designed to carry info from a pc to dac that makes it different from other cables?  Are you able to answer this or are you just going to keep talking about "audiophile" usb cables when you can't even tell me the difference?

I do not know what makes it different from other usb cables, just like I do not know what goes into my QED performance 2s which make it sound different from my Belkin Pure Avs. I do not need to as long as it makes a difference to my setup. I also do not care that power depends on a whole host of other factors but they do vary from cables hence a cable is atleast different from another in that regard even when connected to the same port/charger. Some cables I have claim to adhere to usb 2 standards yet they vary in the amount of time it takes to charge a device. Like I said, we can get bogged down with details or specs but the fact is none of us are cable designers and unless you happen to work for Furutech I just want to know whether you have tried one and share your experience.

Can we just get on with the topic, please read the original post where it says I don't want a cable debate...lots of other usb cable threads on the forum where you can argue the facts...I just want to know whether you have experienced a difference. My apologies if I'm being rude but I specifically did ask. Cheers. 

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

shafesk wrote:

I do not know what makes it different from other usb cables, just like I do not know what goes into my QED performance 2s which make it sound different from my Belkin Pure Avs. I do not need to as long as it makes a difference to my setup. I also do not care that power depends on a whole host of other factors but they do vary from cables hence a cable is atleast different from another in that regard even when connected to the same port/charger. Some cables I have claim to adhere to usb 2 standards yet they vary in the amount of time it takes to charge a device. Like I said, we can get bogged down with details or specs but the fact is none of us are cable designers and unless you happen to work for Furutech I just want to know whether you have tried one and share your experience.

Can we just get on with the topic, please read the original post where it says I don't want a cable debate...lots of other usb cable threads on the forum where you can argue the facts...I just want to know whether you have experienced a difference. My apologies if I'm being rude but I specifically did ask. Cheers. 

 

Ok, so we've established that you have absolutely no idea what the difference is between an "audiophile" usb cable and any normal usb cable should that not ring a few alarm bells with what you are asking?  If somebody asks what the difference is between the cables, and then sombeody else says here's a test to prove there are no differences for what you are asking, surely that's not a debate, but it's actually an answer to your question isn't it?

 

Other than that the answer to your question will be a) I've tried cables and heard a difference or b) I've tried cables and haven't heard a difference.  Either way both of those are so subjective that they bear no worth whatsoever, so again, we go back to the main thing which is try for yourself and if you hear a difference great, and if you don't that's fine.

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

cheeseboy wrote:

shafesk wrote:

I do not know what makes it different from other usb cables, just like I do not know what goes into my QED performance 2s which make it sound different from my Belkin Pure Avs. I do not need to as long as it makes a difference to my setup. I also do not care that power depends on a whole host of other factors but they do vary from cables hence a cable is atleast different from another in that regard even when connected to the same port/charger. Some cables I have claim to adhere to usb 2 standards yet they vary in the amount of time it takes to charge a device. Like I said, we can get bogged down with details or specs but the fact is none of us are cable designers and unless you happen to work for Furutech I just want to know whether you have tried one and share your experience.

For Christ's sake can we just get on with the topic, please read the original post where it says I don't want a cable debate...lots of other usb cable threads on the forum where you can argue the facts...I just want to know whether you have experienced a difference. My apologies if I'm being rude but I specifically did ask. Cheers. 

 

Ok, so we've established that you have absolutely no idea what the difference is between an "audiophile" usb cable and any normal usb cable should that not ring a few alarm bells with what you are asking?  If somebody asks what the difference is between the cables, and then sombeody else says here's a test to prove there are no differences for what you are asking, surely that's not a debate, but it's actually an answer to your question isn't it?

 

Other than that the answer to your question will be a) I've tried cables and heard a difference or b) I've tried cables and haven't heard a difference.  Either way both of those are so subjective that they bear no worth whatsoever, so again, we go back to the main thing which is try for yourself and if you hear a difference great, and if you don't that's fine.

You are right, I don't know what is the difference and neither do you. It doesn't ring an alarm bell, I know which cd player A is better than cd player B but I don't need to know why. Just out of curiousity, how did you exactly prove anything? There are some folks on this forum who genuinely make a compelling argument and know what they are talking about but yours is utter bull, I had to tell you 4 times that I was talking about cables and not usb 1 2 3 before you got it. Nor did you prove anything "scientific" and not anything that we haven't heard before. Just btw, the program you sent is for testing usb ports but I suspect you mixed it up with cables again. Subjective is fine, I wanted subjective and that is what I wanted to know if you actually had the patience to read my opening comment. 
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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

shafesk wrote:

You are right, I don't know what is the difference and neither do you. It doesn't ring an alarm bell, I know which cd player A is better than cd player B but I don't need to know why. Just out of curiousity, how did you exactly prove anything? There are some folks on this forum who genuinely make a compelling argument and know what they are talking about but yours is utter bull, I had to tell you 4 times that I was talking about cables and not usb 1 2 3 before you got it. Nor did you prove anything "scientific" and not anything that we haven't heard before. Just btw, the program you sent is for testing usb ports but I suspect you mixed it up with cables again. Subjective is fine, I wanted subjective and that is what I wanted to know if you actually had the patience to read my opening comment. 

 

oh dear, you really are digging yourself in a bigger hole here aren't you. :help:

 

1) I know that there is actually no difference between "audiophile" usb cable and normal cables.  That's why I asked you as you were the one banding the term about as if it had some significance - it doesn't.  Some "audiophile" cables as Andrew pointed out have the power lines remove to possible reduce interference (even though it's still there when it comes out of the device, so kind of a moot point)

 

2) I'll tell you again, hopefully you will understand this time.  At the moment there are 3 standards of USB.  1, 2  and 3.  Each of these levels up to standard, just like cat 4, 5, 5e, 6 network cables and standards.  The whole point of having these standards is to say that if you want to use usb 2, then you must have a) a USB 2 compatible device and b) a cable that conforms to USB 2 standards in order for it to work as advertised.  That is why some cables move data at a different rate.  If you plug a usb standard 1 cable in to a usb 2 device, it's not going to be able to transfer at full speed.  I sent a link for the testing of usb ports as I was giving an example of how you can test USB devices.  It's not just the cables you might want to test, but the things you are plugging them in to as well.

 

3) I don't need to prove anything as I have given the information for you all to be able to carry out the tests yourselves.  You seem to have missed that bit, yet feel the need to have a go - not sure if it's because you don't understand, or maybe you don't want to.  See the bit about copying files and checking the MD5 hash.  Anybody can do it and you don't need a webpage or a youtube video, you can try it yourself.  It's the most scientific test you are going to get to prove that cables a, b and c are all transmitting the same information from point a to b.  You can do it on differenct computers and different drives and different cables, doesn't matter, the results will be the same, unless the cable is faulty, then there will be an error.

 

If you need me to repeat any of the above as you don't udnerstand please just ask and I'll try and expand a bit more, but please don't say that I'm talking bull because I've given plenty of evidence about how to look at these things yourself.  maybe you should try them yourself, then come back with the results and then we can discuss if I'm talking bull or not?  How does that sound?

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

 

I completely agree with the poster here.  I dont want to debate usb tech as theres more to usb than just the cable - and theres more to life than usb  lol.  There's software drivers on the pc and software and hardware implementations on the dac.  I know that my beresford DAC has a buffer of 1ms.  As someone that works in IT - 1ms is not a great buffer!  I dont think its an accident that Beresford have dropped USB on the latest bushmaster dac, either.  This is of course completely my opinion.

In short i dont have the time/inclination to look any further at usb tech but am interested in what people are finding.

It would be helpful for me at least that if you can hear a difference can you state on what dac/cable.  Even if you dont hear a difference, just state the dac and cable.  Its really that simple Smile

Maybe dacs with a good usb implementation dont benefit from a good cable, whereas dacs that have a poor implementation or use USB for power do.  I honestly dont know the answer to these questions and like the poster dont care that much - but opinions are useful.

 

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

cheeseboy wrote:

shafesk wrote:

You are right, I don't know what is the difference and neither do you. It doesn't ring an alarm bell, I know which cd player A is better than cd player B but I don't need to know why. Just out of curiousity, how did you exactly prove anything? There are some folks on this forum who genuinely make a compelling argument and know what they are talking about but yours is utter bull, I had to tell you 4 times that I was talking about cables and not usb 1 2 3 before you got it. Nor did you prove anything "scientific" and not anything that we haven't heard before. Just btw, the program you sent is for testing usb ports but I suspect you mixed it up with cables again. Subjective is fine, I wanted subjective and that is what I wanted to know if you actually had the patience to read my opening comment. 

 

oh dear, you really are digging yourself in a bigger hole here aren't you. :help:

 

1) I know that there is actually no difference between "audiophile" usb cable and normal cables.  That's why I asked you as you were the one banding the term about as if it had some significance - it doesn't.  Some "audiophile" cables as Andrew pointed out have the power lines remove to possible reduce interference (even though it's still there when it comes out of the device, so kind of a moot point)

 

2) I'll tell you again, hopefully you will understand this time.  At the moment there are 3 standards of USB.  1, 2  and 3.  Each of these levels up to standard, just like cat 4, 5, 5e, 6 network cables and standards.  The whole point of having these standards is to say that if you want to use usb 2, then you must have a) a USB 2 compatible device and b) a cable that conforms to USB 2 standards in order for it to work as advertised.  That is why some cables move data at a different rate.  If you plug a usb standard 1 cable in to a usb 2 device, it's not going to be able to transfer at full speed.  I sent a link for the testing of usb ports as I was giving an example of how you can test USB devices.  It's not just the cables you might want to test, but the things you are plugging them in to as well.

 

3) I don't need to prove anything as I have given the information for you all to be able to carry out the tests yourselves.  You seem to have missed that bit, yet feel the need to have a go - not sure if it's because you don't understand, or maybe you don't want to.  See the bit about copying files and checking the MD5 hash.  Anybody can do it and you don't need a webpage or a youtube video, you can try it yourself.  It's the most scientific test you are going to get to prove that cables a, b and c are all transmitting the same information from point a to b.  You can do it on differenct computers and different drives and different cables, doesn't matter, the results will be the same, unless the cable is faulty, then there will be an error.

 

If you need me to repeat any of the above as you don't udnerstand please just ask and I'll try and expand a bit more, but please don't say that I'm talking bull because I've given plenty of evidence about how to look at these things yourself.  maybe you should try them yourself, then come back with the results and then we can discuss if I'm talking bull or not?  How does that sound?

1) You didn't know what was a usb cable till Andrew told you 10 mins ago. So all of a sudden you know that there are no differences between them without trying one?

2) Who on earth doesn't know about usb standards? Stop boring me with them. I have repeatedly said that 2 usb 2.0 cables I have charge at different rates and it is obviously not the device's fault and the device doesn't need to be tested. 

3) Have I not made it clear that I do not care to test usb cables? I have also agreed that cables transmit all information or none at all but I am talking about the TIME IT TAKES FOR THEM TO TRANSFER THE DATA AND THE POWER THEY SUPPLY to the connected device. Honesty, you are just repeating yourself. 

You haven't really given me evidence that I haven't heard before and I repeatedly asked NOT to give me any evidence. If you don't have any comment on a usb cable  you have tried which has made a difference to your setup just stop discouraging others from commenting on this thread. Like I said there are plenty of threads which argues the scientif reasons for them making/not making a difference. Me, I just want to know what consumers who have tried such a usb cable have found.

 

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

shafesk wrote:

1) You didn't know what was a usb cable till Andrew told you 10 mins ago. So all of a sudden you know that there are no differences between them without trying one?

 

ROFL Oh dear.  No of course I didn't.  I forgot that you know everything about me, silly me.  All those years working in studios and recording albums, not to mention all of the years of IT, silly me, I didn't know what USB cable is.  doh! Wink

 

 

shafesk wrote:

2) Who on earth doesn't know about usb standards? Stop boring me with them. I have repeatedly said that 2 usb 2.0 cables I have charge at different rates and it is obviously not the device's fault and the device doesn't need to be tested.

 

 

So now it's just down to charging...  what's that got to do with audio???  The point I was making that unless a cable has been certified to work at a certain standard then yes, there will probably be differences in the rate it allows power through, but that still makes no odds to what we are talking about.

 

shafesk wrote:

3) Have I not made it clear that I do not care to test usb cables? I have also agreed that cables transmit all information or none at all but I am talking about the TIME IT TAKES FOR THEM TO TRANSFER THE DATA AND THE POWER THEY SUPPLY to the connected device. Honesty, you are just repeating yourself. 

eh?  You brought up my links to USB testing, now you say you don't care.  make your mind up for gods sake. :help: 

shafesk wrote:

You haven't really given me evidence that I haven't heard before and I repeatedly asked NOT to give me any evidence. If you don't have any comment on a usb cable  you have tried which has made a difference to your setup just stop discouraging others from commenting on this thread. Like I said there are plenty of threads which argues the scientif reasons for them making/not making a difference. Me, I just want to know what consumers who have tried such a usb cable have found.

 

 

I'm not discouraging any others, I'm replying to you as you keep taking umbridge with what I'm saying.  If you're going to say I'm talking bull, I'll reply in earnest.  :type:

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

Ben123 wrote:

 

I completely agree with the poster here.  I dont want to debate usb tech as theres more to usb than just the cable - and theres more to life than usb  lol.  There's software drivers on the pc and software and hardware implementations on the dac.  I know that my beresford DAC has a buffer of 1ms.  As someone that works in IT - 1ms is not a great buffer!  I dont think its an accident that Beresford have dropped USB on the latest bushmaster dac, either.  This is of course completely my opinion.

In short i dont have the time/inclination to look any further at usb tech but am interested in what people are finding.

It would be helpful for me at least that if you can hear a difference can you state on what dac/cable.  Even if you dont hear a difference, just state the dac and cable.  Its really that simple Smile

Maybe dacs with a good usb implementation dont benefit from a good cable, whereas dacs that have a poor implementation or use USB for power do.  I honestly dont know the answer to these questions and like the poster dont care that much - but opinions are useful.

 

 

It's a good point as buffering and clocking play a very important part.  Hence you may have a totally seperate clock source that all devices link up to to when in a recording studio to make sure there aren't any latency errors. 

 

Therefore, if you have a dac with hardly any buffer, you're going to need to make sure that the cable you use is quality enough to shift the data across otherwise it will be drop out city.

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

Not dignifying you with answers to someone who doesnt even get a point of the thread. Suggest you look at other threads to get ur jollies....good work annoying 3 people in a single day. Goodbye to you.

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

Clocking might be a problem on my beresford (which is why i use optical for the beresford and i am now happy with its performance).  My rpac is asynchronous usb so if the blurb is to be believed its acting as a master clock so latency shouldnt be (or much of) an issue.

I have been reading (i know how dangerous this is!)  that people have been finding a change of cable has improved the bass on the rpac.  When i say 'people', i mean fairly well respected people on other forums that as far as i can see how no reason to lie.  As the rpac is asynchronous the data should be taken care of, which leads me to think that maybe power over usb is a factor.

I find it interesting that different cables charge devices at different speeds though

The bottom line is I can get a short kimber for 50 notes, and if it makes no improvement i can hopefully sell it for half, meaning to answer this question is going to cost me 25 notes and a bit of hassle.

Anyone who has changed the standard cable on the rpac with a kimber one and not finding a difference would save me this hassle and money! Smile

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RE: USB cables, please share your experience

The_Lhc wrote:

cheeseboy wrote:
so even though we can prove scientifically and accurately that there are no differences with usb cables

Source please? I've seen the HDMI arguments but I haven't come across the equivalent for USB yet.

 

Details on the make up of USB here

 

http://www.usb.org/home

 

There are varitaions between cables but certain standards have to met. The issue is can those differences account for differences in sound quality? So far the evidence is no they cannot, there is no causal link between how a USB is made or how it measures and subjective reports of sound quality. Like all other cables, USB fail ABX tests.

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