Play a track today and play it again next week without changing anything in your set up. I will be surprised if there isn't even a slight different in sound.
So even though nothings changed, it sounds different? I'd call that a good reason not to trust your ears!
Not to trust your ears? Then why even bother listening to music?
To enjoy it, not pick it apart wondering if I can hear a difference with some stupid cable. My point was if the same system can sound different when it isn't, how can you trust yourself to know if a difference you hear is real or not? I think I'll bow out of this one though and leave you and some of the others fretting about cables, I'll go back to what I was doing earlier - enjoying some music.
Thats my point all along...to the OP at least... try it out...if there is no different in sound.. so be it....Enjoy the music... if there is, fortunate/unfortunate for the OP...depending how the OP takes it...
And my analogy about listening to the track is that....even without any changes made on your set up...no 2 different occasions that the music you listen to will sound 100% the same....
But yes...that is on useful advice...Enjoy the music...and not hifi...
HiFi: ClearAudio Concept TT, Musical Fidelity M6i and M6 DAC, M1s (CDT, CLiC, ViNL), Onkyo TA2600, SONY MDSJA20ES MDP, ProAc D18 with full Siltech cabling.
HT: Samsung UA55B7000 LED, OPPO BDP 95-EU,Marantz DV4003, Yamaha RX-V2067, Philips DVDR7300H, Infinity Primus Center, Wharfedale WH2, SW15 Sub, Mission M34i with full QED cabling
Bedroom: BRIK Audio BT Stage, Bose WAVE Music Sytem III
HeadFi: Alessandro Grado MS Pro, Bryston BHA-1 headphone Amp.
Office: iTunes, UD100 USB DAC, Bose Companion II, Musical Fidelity HPA headphone amp, Bose Over The Ear
To all those who believe that they have golden ears; click on the link at the bottom of Craig M's post then scroll down until you get to the link to the McGurk effect and watch it. Your ears lie to you most of the time.
NwAvGuy has a similar attitude to Alan Shaw (Harbeth) - he is an engineer who does not believe the HiFi myths and like AS he can provide plenty of evidence to back up his beliefs.
I think what most people here are trying to do is to prevent people wasting a lot money on things that make no difference.
"Let your ears decide" is possibly the worst advice to give anyone.
Source 1) "Inspired" Manticore Mantra turntable c/w Rega RB 301 arm, Goldring 1042 MM Cartridge, Graham Slee Reflex M phono stage, Graham Slee CuSat 50 interconnect
Source 2) Cyrus CD8 SE CD player
Source 3) iTunes (ALAC), iMac, Devolo Homeplugs, Apple TV3, Toslink, Arcam rDAC
Source 4) Technics SL-7 linear tracking turntable.
Roksan Kandy L3 amp, Spendor A5 speakers.
Other rooms: more Airport Expresses and Homeplugs with Denon AV system and Denon Mini system.
An audible difference between USB cables ?
Laughed so hard my bum bled.
Ifor. Here's how I see it (well, hear it). I can hear differences between loudspeakers. I can hear differences between amplifiers. I can hear differences between systems where an amplifier and a speaker are joined together in one box. Sometimes, even at my age, I can hear differences between certain types of interconnect and even some types of speaker cables. If one compares poorly built cable made out of scrag-ends from the copper bin against a well-manufactured, correctly terminated multi-strand cable, then science says there will be a difference in performance - it's not just my ears.
However, to suggest that anyone on this planet can actually hear a difference between 'audio' (actually, data) carried by USB cables is for me, in all probability, unlikely. I tend to deal with science and facts. For me, what is relevant is what is happening at either end of the USB cable. I kind of know about this stuff.
With regard to your specific comment regarding a 'Gerald Ratner moment' and your suggestion that 'we can't trust What HiFi reviews' - I take great personal offence. I haven't suggested that one cannot trust What HiFi reviews - if What HiFi writers believe that there is an audible difference between USB cables then that is entirely up to them and it's the choice of the readers as to whether their advice should be followed.
I believe that I am also at liberty to make my own choices on this - I read What HiFi with great interest and have respect for all that work there. But - I don't agree with everything they say and sometimes I strongly disagree with their views on certain products or technologies. This is my right as an individual living in Great Britain, rather than say, North Korea. I also have the balls (as someone from Roth AV) to post occasionally on this forum, even if it does mean exposing myself to this type of insulting and obnoxious post.
JAMES A. ROTH
ROTH AV LTD. - FOUNDER
Wow! That has made me unworthy to be on this thread anymore as now I am known to be the giver of the worst advice.
I will continue with my belief to enjoy to what I hear rather than whatever science textbook preach when it comes to music enjoyment.
Hopefully the OP didnt loose his interest in CAS after reading the debate here.
Knowing a bit about what happens at the ends of a USB cable myself, I would question your science and facts.
If the USB cable is simply carrying async data, where the source and sink have flow control ability and sink timing is independent of the source clock, and the USB cable is not supplying power to the sink, then I would agree with your stance.
If however (as I believe is more common) the USB cable is being asked also to supply clean, low impedance power to the sink, and / or stable, jitter free timing information, then I think that there is a chance that poor quality cables MAY be able to impact the sound quality.
What is your view on this?
That's exactly what you meant: either trust all WHF reviews, or don't trust any of its reviews. Why should it be that way? You may agree with some of its reviews as it correlates with your experience, but if your experience is different to some of its other reviews, so be it. What's wrong in that?
My Home Cinema Pioneer KRP 500A, Yamaha RX-V1900, MA Radius R225HD LCR, R90HD rears, AW12 sub, Panasonic BD60, PS3, Boxee Box, Sky HD, Boxee Box, Logitech Harmony One, Logitech PS3 Adapter, Sonos ZP90
Bedroom Samsung UE32C6510, PS3 slim white, Apple TV, Sonos S5, Sonos ZP90, Audioengine 2, Oppo OPDV971H
Miscellaneous: Synology DS212J + 2 X WD Red 2TB drives, WD 1TB NAS, Sonos ZoneBridge, BT HH3 as modem & AirPort Extreme router
then I think that there is a chance that poor quality cables MAY be able to impact the sound quality.
if there is any impact on the sound quality, it will be drop outs, pops or noise. Not increased bass or more revealing etc...
In answer to andyjm (as he asked me a direct question) - with a poor quality cable there may be compromised audio reproduction - totally agree with you. There may be some annoying 'noise' that is caused by poor manufacturing, but in my opinion, there would be no change in tonal quality. If there was any change in tonal quality it is highly unlikely (again, in my personal opinion) that the human ear would be capable of detecting this.
James - I don't think it would be just buzz or pops if the problems manuifested themselves as missing data.
I also think that any missing data problems would only realy manifest themselves on High Res data streaming. A 192 / 24 bit stream transfers many hundred more times data than a low rated MP3. You probably could stream the MP3 on a piece of string.
I think that there might be some improvement in SQ with some more expensive cables for some high res files but it would probably be the last thinh I would look at for any upgrades. Certainly below getting my ears un-waxed!!
There is diffrence because the wires are made from copper,silver,mixed content etc...data still flow,no problem,that is ok,but added material to wire ads flavour ,and changing sound ,not drastic .All blind test fail because brain of human remembers only fractions of music track which was played.some instruments are missing .
I somebody doesn't believe you can consider example with the light as data,light in bulbs , light in most cases do its job,as data do flowing inside wire.There are variuos colors of light which :led,diods,ect...Or you still believe that everything is placebo effect
Harbeth SHL5 ,Technics se-a3000,su-c3000,Bryston BDA-1,V-Link192,self made usb cable from flat tasker red copper cable ,Atlas titan interconnects,atlas hyper2.0 speaker cable
if alan shaw don't believe in wires ,why he in anniversary model shl5 speakers changed wires to expensive ones ?
Because he understands his target market.
NaimUniti | Rega RP8 | Harbeth Super HL5
Similarly one of his satisfied customers, AudioTruth: http://is.gd/SAd3UU
Consulting Editor, What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision/whathifi.com Audio Editor, Gramophone
This is well known on the Harbeth users forum, I would imagine the prevailing opinion there is substantially different to yours:
The SE fancy cable is fitted for marketing reasons and marketing reasons alone.
Very well said.
Some time ago it seemed that there were N Korea tendancies but the moderating policy now is significantly more grown up and very welcome.
Apple Lossless - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40 or Marantz CD50SE (modded] - AVI ADM 40
also ATV3 into AVI ADM 9T [my wife's system] and Grado SR80i
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