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usb cables expensive v cheap

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El Hefe's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Craig M. wrote:

El Hefe wrote:

Craig M. wrote:

El Hefe wrote:

Play a track today and play it again next week without changing anything in your set up. I will be surprised if there isn't even a slight different in sound.

So even though nothings changed, it sounds different?  I'd call that a good reason not to trust your ears! doh!

Not to trust your ears? Then why even bother listening to music?

To enjoy it, not pick it apart wondering if I can hear a difference with some stupid cable.  My point was if the same system can sound different when it isn't, how can you trust yourself to know if a difference you hear is real or not?  I think I'll bow out of this one though and leave you and some of the others fretting about cables, I'll go back to what I was doing earlier - enjoying some music.

Thats my point all along...to the OP at least... try it out...if there is no different in sound.. so be it....Enjoy the music... if there is, fortunate/unfortunate for the OP...depending how the OP takes it...

And my analogy about listening to the track is that....even without any changes made on your set up...no 2 different occasions that the music you listen to will sound 100% the same....

But yes...that is on useful advice...Enjoy the music...and not hifi...

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pauln's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

To all those who believe that they have golden ears; click on the link at the bottom of Craig M's post then scroll down until you get to the link to the McGurk effect and watch it. Your ears lie to you most of the time.

NwAvGuy has a similar attitude to Alan Shaw (Harbeth) - he is an engineer who does not believe the HiFi myths and like AS he can provide plenty of evidence to back up his beliefs.

I think what most people here are trying to do is to prevent people wasting a lot money on things that make no difference.

"Let your ears decide" is possibly the worst advice to give anyone.

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ifor's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

bigboss wrote:
I don't get this. Are you saying that if my friend supports the English cricket team (as me), then I should be happy about his support for Manchester United (when I support Man City), simply because we both support the same team in cricket?

No, I didn't say that.

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ROTH AV's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ifor wrote:

ROTH AV wrote:

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting.  I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews.  A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

 

Ifor. Here's how I see it (well, hear it).  I can hear differences between loudspeakers.  I can hear differences between amplifiers.  I can hear differences between systems where an amplifier and a speaker are joined together in one box.  Sometimes, even at my age, I can hear differences between certain types of interconnect and even some types of speaker cables. If one compares poorly built cable made out of scrag-ends from the copper bin against a well-manufactured, correctly terminated multi-strand cable, then science says there will be a difference in performance - it's not just my ears.

However, to suggest that anyone on this planet can actually hear a difference between 'audio' (actually, data) carried by USB cables is for me, in all probability, unlikely. I tend to deal with science and facts. For me, what is relevant is what is happening at either end of the USB cable. I kind of know about this stuff.

With regard to your specific comment regarding a 'Gerald Ratner moment' and your suggestion that 'we can't trust What HiFi reviews' - I take great personal offence. I haven't suggested that one cannot trust What HiFi reviews - if What HiFi writers believe that there is an audible difference between USB cables then that is entirely up to them and it's the choice of the readers as to whether their advice should be followed.  

I believe that I am also at liberty to make my own choices on this - I read What HiFi with great interest and have respect for all that work there. But - I don't agree with everything they say and sometimes I strongly disagree with their views on certain products or technologies.  This is my right as an individual living in Great Britain, rather than say, North Korea.  I also have the balls (as someone from Roth AV) to post occasionally on this forum, even if it does mean exposing myself to this type of insulting and obnoxious post.

Thank you.

 

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El Hefe's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

pauln wrote:

To all those who believe that they have golden ears; click on the link at the bottom of Craig M's post then scroll down until you get to the link to the McGurk effect and watch it. Your ears lie to you most of the time.

NwAvGuy has a similar attitude to Alan Shaw (Harbeth) - he is an engineer who does not believe the HiFi myths and like AS he can provide plenty of evidence to back up his beliefs.

I think what most people here are trying to do is to prevent people wasting a lot money on things that make no difference.

"Let your ears decide" is possibly the worst advice to give anyone.

Wow! That has made me unworthy to be on this thread anymore as now I am known to be the giver of the worst advice. 

I will continue with my belief to enjoy to what I hear rather than whatever science textbook preach when it comes to music enjoyment. 

Hopefully the OP didnt loose his interest in CAS after reading the debate here. Smile

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ROTH AV wrote:

However, to suggest that anyone on this planet can actually hear a difference between 'audio' (actually, data) carried by USB cables is for me, in all probability, unlikely. I tend to deal with science and facts. For me, what is relevant is what is happening at either end of the USB cable. I kind of know about this stuff.

 

James,

Knowing a bit about what happens at the ends of a USB cable myself, I would question your science and facts. 

If the USB cable is simply carrying async data, where the source and sink have flow control ability and sink timing is independent of the source clock, and the USB cable is not supplying power to the sink, then I would agree with your stance.  

If however (as I believe is more common) the USB cable is being asked also to supply clean, low impedance power to the sink, and / or stable, jitter free timing information, then I think that there is a chance that poor quality cables MAY be able to impact the sound quality.

What is your view on this?

 

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ifor wrote:

bigboss wrote:
I don't get this. Are you saying that if my friend supports the English cricket team (as me), then I should be happy about his support for Manchester United (when I support Man City), simply because we both support the same team in cricket?

No, I didn't say that.

That's exactly what you meant: either trust all WHF reviews, or don't trust any of its reviews. Why should it be that way? You may agree with some of its reviews as it correlates with your experience, but if your experience is different to some of its other reviews, so be it. What's wrong in that?

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cheeseboy's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

andyjm wrote:

then I think that there is a chance that poor quality cables MAY be able to impact the sound quality.

 

if there is any impact on the sound quality, it will be drop outs, pops or noise.  Not increased bass or more revealing etc...

ROTH AV's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

In answer to andyjm (as he asked me a direct question) - with a poor quality cable there may be compromised audio reproduction - totally agree with you.  There may be some annoying 'noise' that is caused by poor manufacturing, but in my opinion, there would be no change in tonal quality.  If there was any change in tonal quality it is highly unlikely (again, in my personal opinion) that the human ear would be capable of detecting this.

 

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BronC's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ROTH AV wrote:

In answer to andyjm (as he asked me a direct question) - with a poor quality cable there may be compromised audio reproduction - totally agree with you.  There may be some annoying 'noise' that is caused by poor manufacturing, but in my opinion, there would be no change in tonal quality.  If there was any change in tonal quality it is highly unlikely (again, in my personal opinion) that the human ear would be capable of detecting this.

 

James - I don't think it would be just buzz or pops if the problems manuifested themselves as missing data.

I also think that any missing data problems would only realy manifest themselves on High Res data streaming.  A 192 / 24 bit stream transfers many hundred more times data than a low rated MP3.  You probably could stream the MP3 on a piece of string.

I think that there might be some improvement in SQ with some more expensive cables for some high res files but it would probably be the last thinh I would look at for any upgrades.  Certainly below getting my ears un-waxed!!

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

pauln wrote:

To all those who believe that they have golden ears; click on the link at the bottom of Craig M's post then scroll down until you get to the link to the McGurk effect and watch it. Your ears lie to you most of the time.

NwAvGuy has a similar attitude to Alan Shaw (Harbeth) - he is an engineer who does not believe the HiFi myths and like AS he can provide plenty of evidence to back up his beliefs.

I think what most people here are trying to do is to prevent people wasting a lot money on things that make no difference.

"Let your ears decide" is possibly the worst advice to give anyone.

if alan shaw don't believe in wires ,why he in anniversary model shl5 speakers changed wires to expensive ones  Tongue?

There is diffrence because  the wires are made from copper,silver,mixed content etc...data still flow,no problem,that is ok,but added material to wire ads flavour ,and changing sound ,not drastic .All blind test fail because brain of human remembers only fractions of music track which was played.some instruments are missing . party time!

I somebody doesn't believe you can consider example with the light as data,light in bulbs , light in most cases do its job,as data do flowing inside wire.There are variuos colors of light which :led,diods,ect...Or you still believe that everything is placebo effect rolling on the floor laughing

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Bodfish's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Rimse wrote:

if alan shaw don't believe in wires ,why he in anniversary model shl5 speakers changed wires to expensive ones  Tongue?

Because he understands his target market.

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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

professorhat wrote:
I think it's clear Mr Roth should visit his GP.

Similarly one of his satisfied customers, AudioTruth: http://is.gd/SAd3UU

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pauln's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

Rimse wrote:

if alan shaw don't believe in wires ,why he in anniversary model shl5 speakers changed wires to expensive ones  Tongue?

This is well known on the Harbeth users forum, I would imagine the prevailing opinion there is substantially different to yours:

Quote:
 

The SE fancy cable is fitted for marketing reasons and marketing reasons alone.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?1582-Testing-P3ESR-SE

 

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relocated's picture
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RE: usb cables expensive v cheap

ROTH AV wrote:

ifor wrote:

ROTH AV wrote:

An audible difference between USB cables ?

Really ?

Laughed so hard my bum bled.

I found this interesting.  I assume Mr Roth looks forward to / hopes for favourable reviews for his products from the WHF reviewing team, but with comment he's effectively said that we can't trust WHF reviews.  A bit of a Gerald Ratner moment methinks.

 

Ifor. Here's how I see it (well, hear it).  I can hear differences between loudspeakers.  I can hear differences between amplifiers.  I can hear differences between systems where an amplifier and a speaker are joined together in one box.  Sometimes, even at my age, I can hear differences between certain types of interconnect and even some types of speaker cables. If one compares poorly built cable made out of scrag-ends from the copper bin against a well-manufactured, correctly terminated multi-strand cable, then science says there will be a difference in performance - it's not just my ears.

However, to suggest that anyone on this planet can actually hear a difference between 'audio' (actually, data) carried by USB cables is for me, in all probability, unlikely. I tend to deal with science and facts. For me, what is relevant is what is happening at either end of the USB cable. I kind of know about this stuff.

With regard to your specific comment regarding a 'Gerald Ratner moment' and your suggestion that 'we can't trust What HiFi reviews' - I take great personal offence. I haven't suggested that one cannot trust What HiFi reviews - if What HiFi writers believe that there is an audible difference between USB cables then that is entirely up to them and it's the choice of the readers as to whether their advice should be followed.  

I believe that I am also at liberty to make my own choices on this - I read What HiFi with great interest and have respect for all that work there. But - I don't agree with everything they say and sometimes I strongly disagree with their views on certain products or technologies.  This is my right as an individual living in Great Britain, rather than say, North Korea.  I also have the balls (as someone from Roth AV) to post occasionally on this forum, even if it does mean exposing myself to this type of insulting and obnoxious post.

Thank you.

 

 

Very well said.  

Some time ago it seemed that there were N Korea tendancies but the moderating policy now is significantly more grown up and very welcome.

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