TBH this is only something that I've read on the AVI forum. It's been mentioned there several times by a couple of the very knowledgeable members as well as by Ashley. I think that it's to do with the way that the sound waves interact with the external shape of the enclosure as they radiate away.
From my own subjective experience standmount speakers do tend to sound more natural over the mid-range frequencies than equivalently priced floorstanders. But as I said I'm not an expert so take this with a pinch of salt.
I have my subwoofer placed directly underneath my right ear but you can never tell which direction the bass is coming from. The integration is so good that sometimes the bass notes can even sound like they're coming from the left side of the stereo image.
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Ironically pop music (either electronic or with drums) usually has more deep bass notes than classical music. I could happily live without a subwoofer if I only listened to classical.
I don't know how much classical music you listen to, or how many concerts you've been to (not meant to sound patronizing), but I suspect there are notes that reach just as low as that needed for the electronic stuff.
I don't think you can get near the scale of a full orchestra, even with full range speakers. I have a Reference 18" sub, which only hints at it (but can put you through the back wall of the house with bass heavy pop).
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I don't know how much classical music you listen to, or how many concerts you've been to (not meant to sound patronizing), but I suspect there are notes that reach just as low as that needed for the electronic stuff. I don't think you can get near the scale of a full orchestra, even with full range speakers. I have a Reference 18" sub, which only hints at it (but can put you through the back wall of the house with bass heavy pop).
I've never actually seen a real orchestra play live (I dream of going to the Last of the Proms one day).
When listening to classical music at home though I find that most of it doesn't sound like it has much bass. Especially when compared to electronic music or music with drums.
I've never actually seen a real orchestra play live (I dream of going the Last of the Proms one day).
That is exactly the way it comes across, partly because of some of the recordings, but mostly because it takes a very expensive system to give an approximation.
If you ever get to the proms (which I hope you do), you will literally be blown away by the impact. It's as big a difference as going from a portable, to an expensive hifi system.
Now, lets find something to disagree on, so the universe can get back into balance!
At least we know that it doesn't matter what mains lead he uses because they all sound the same.
mmm Intresting theory...
But I was always told that standmount's ofthen sound good because it's easier to get the crosover right?
But than like mentioned there is the roomfilling factor.
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Do we indeed??!!
I'm no expert so please take this explanation with a pinch of salt and bare in mind that I'm generalizing here.
The mid-range is the most important part of the music because these are the frequencies that our ears and brains are the most sensitive to.
Small standmount speakers tend to sound better than big floorstanders over the crucial mid-range frequencies. This is due to the way our ears and brains have evolved over thousands of years which mean that sounds (especially vocals) originating from a head sized speaker sound more natural to us.
this is interesting. never heard of it before and I red a lot about speaker acoustic. I don't see any reason why the size of the speaker, other than it's baffle width, would matter with respect to it sounding more natural or not. it certainly has nothing to do with a speaker being head-sized take Quads for instance. nothing close to head-sized speakers but many claim they get as close to the real thing with vocals as it gets.
Small speakers also have a better stereo image and they have the advantage of radiating almost omnidirectionally too.
this is total nonsense! how can conicaly shaped,forward radiating sound source be omnidirectional at the same time?! ever heard about driver beaming? if small speakers have better imaging this is only due to them having smaller enclosure which is more difficult for us to detect enclosure reflections and thus detect speakers as the actual sound source. but again what if you don't have an enclosure, like in case of ESLs, to worry about in the first place?
Big floorstanding speakers have issues with internal standing waves and the large external surfaces suffer more from cabinet edge diffraction than small speakers do.
like small speakers don't have problems with standing waves?! again for this statement.
cabinet edge diffraction has nothing to do with size of the speaker but with the shape of the enclosure (search Olson if interested) and the frequency at which you need to compensate for baffle step depends on baffle width and driver size. it doesn't matter if the enclosure is deep or shallow, tall or small.
The big advantage that floorstanders do have over small standmount speakers is that they have a larger enclosure volume allowing them to reproduce deeper bass frequencies than small standmount speakers can.
what you write about here is enclosure resonance, not deep bass reproduction. deep bass comes from larger driver radiating area or higher driver excursion (but this route inevitably means higher harmonic distortion). enclosure thump is not deep bass as many people think is. but I can appreciate many people may like this quality of box speakers.
By using various porting and tuning techniques it's possible to make a small speaker that sounds like it has more bass by boosting some of the mid-bass frequencies or by making them boom. But it's imposssible to make a small speaker that can produce deep bass.
at least one statement that is actually correct
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After having experienced last adventure with Rob, I am back on my road for upgrading my speakers. My dealer actually offer me a sweet deal on some ex-demo Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento...looking like brand new and coming with a full warranty...but a 20% discount!
Maybe a few months ago I would jump quickly on the offer without thinking twice...today I am kind of wondering if this would be a wise move. I am trying to understand if this could be my ultimate speakers or I will soon regret haveing spent this amount of money on a standmount speaker...
I mean I love those speakers and I think they are a great match with my Jadis...but not sure if I won't be better off with nice floorstanders (new Venere model from SF are actually pretty good, not tried yet though)
Hope to see some nice thoughts and insights
hi Acalex. I say you should go and try out some panel speakers. if only to discard that option as a valid one for you. try to audition Magnepan MG3.7 (so far I could only find good opinions about them on the net) or Quads ESLs, as those are definitely valve amp friendly. BTW there's been a update on Quad ESLs recently and the new ones are marked 2912 and 2812.
you haven't listened to my advice the first time, re: Pathos amps. and I heard you planning a change to a Pathos some time ago . try panels this time before you commit to buying anything. you've got nothing to loose really and a lot to gain.
Well, a lot of insights here, it will take me some time to read and understand all of them!
I guess I need to start taking home some of the speakers and try in a familiar environment, it would be difficult to find all brand I would like to try available for home demos, but I least I will make sure it's exactly what I like.
If I where you I would try some speakers with a higher efficienty. see how it sound's
An as you know I'm always in for the expiriences
I found this which is quite interesting about classical instruments:
Certainly you can get impressive bass from an orchestra. I remember one particular Prom where we sat in the "orchestra seats" behind the double basses and you could feel those in your stomach. The thing with classical music is that it isn't thump thump bass. It's more subtle.
this is interesting. never heard of it before and I red a lot about speaker acoustic. I don't see any reason why the size of the speaker, other than it's baffle width, would matter with respect to it sounding more natural or not. it certainly has nothing to do with a speaker being head-sized
Speakers that have a larger enclosure volume are able to produce lower frequencies than speakers that have a small enclosure volume. This is a fact.
Interesting link. Thanks for posting.
The only piece of classical music that I listen to at home that gets my subwoofer flapping is this:
Johann Sebastian Bach – Toccata & Fugue D Minor, BWV. 565
Could anyone give me an example of another piece of classical music that has room shaking bass like pop music does?
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