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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

Yes, you have also to consider my gf has to give the last approval regarding the design...and that's the most difficult test. I am pretty ok with that as, on the other hand, it doesn't matter how many boxes I take home  :rockout:

She saw the Guarneri Memento and fell in love so it will be very difficult to find something competing in terms of design  :wall:

The Vivid Audio and Anthony Gallo look a bit too futuristic also for me...so no chances there. But I am VERY interested to see what you think after you have tried them

Ofcourse, after seeing any Sonus Faber speakers, it is very hard to pick up any other speakers just based on the way they look !

I am completely with you on the pride of Ownership and especially more with a woman in the equation! My wife wanted only real wood veneer speakers and not too imposing floor standers. Now with our relocation, she is a bit fine with the choice as the speakers won't be in living room and we are in pursuit on wall speakers.

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with these speakers in general, especially with a tube amp like the Jadis which offset very well the tendency to be a bit bright. But the speakers are certaintly holding back the potential of the amplifier...it is also normal compared the price disproportion existing...

 

"At the end of the day" sounds to me as "after all" you are quite satisfied. It seems you are quite happy with your speakers. You can even finetune the bass with the supplied bugs, or reposition them. To me it is not clear what you are missing/not satisfied with.

Considering the money, it is not strange to have an amp that is more expensive then the speakers. To be "interested" in speakers costing 11.000 (11x your RX6's) "sounds" a bit unrealistic to me. In the end there are always better things of course.

Airport Express (still analog!), Artephonos Energa (tube-amp), Peitho 303 (infinite baffle speakers)

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Rethep wrote:

acalex wrote:

At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with these speakers in general, especially with a tube amp like the Jadis which offset very well the tendency to be a bit bright. But the speakers are certaintly holding back the potential of the amplifier...it is also normal compared the price disproportion existing...

 

"At the end of the day" sounds to me as "after all" you are quite satisfied. It seems you are quite happy with your speakers. You can even finetune the bass with the supplied bugs, or reposition them. To me it is not clear what you are missing/not satisfied with.

Considering the money, it is not strange to have an amp that is more expensive then the speakers. To be "interested" in speakers costing 11.000 (11x your RX6's) "sounds" a bit unrealistic to me. In the end there are always better things of course.

I am satisfied of those speakers considering the price I paid for them. Now that I upgraded my amp I don't feel living with those speakers anymore as they are holding back the performances of the amplifier I bought. 

When I heard my current amplifier connected to Sonus Faber Guarneri was just everything different, more musical more clarity, more enjoyment, better vocals...everything was much better and I can't stand anymore listening to these speakers when I heard what the amp is capable of when properly connected. Don't understand to be honest what it sounds unrealistic...

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Don't get me wrong, i am not trying to hold you back from spending so much money, as the economy can use it. But in my opinion you can have very good speakers, if not so exotic in looks and price, which give you much more value for the money. You already have some!

I am curious what, at first, made you listen to the other speakers (in the shop ?) connected to your amp. If it was in the shop, also consider that the acoustics of the listening room are the major factor that they sounded so well. My speakers have never sounded any better than in the hifishop because the room was so big for ideal placement and bass-sound.

With my new amp (1,5 years now) i had to really get used to the valve-sound, and only since a few months (and some speakeradjustments) i can really appreciate its real qualities. What i mean is: did you take enough time to listen to your current system ? Tried different toe-in, repositioning of your speakers ? I can't believe that you are (so quickly ?) unsatisfied with your speakers.

Then again i might not have your ears, money, and "greed" for the best sound (which at least saves me a lot of money).

Airport Express (still analog!), Artephonos Energa (tube-amp), Peitho 303 (infinite baffle speakers)

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Rethep wrote:

Then again i might not have your ears, money, and "greed" for the best sound (which at least saves me a lot of money).

Once the Rubicon has been crossed, there is no going back.....it's a very dangerous game, this hifi lark.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Yes, but maybe if you cross it too fast (taking too big steps at a time) you could be ready to spend the rest of your life thinking if there is really not something better, bigger and more expensive.

Airport Express (still analog!), Artephonos Energa (tube-amp), Peitho 303 (infinite baffle speakers)

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Rethep wrote:

Yes, but maybe if you cross it too fast (taking too big steps at a time) you could be ready to spend the rest of your life thinking if there is really not something better, bigger and more expensive.

I can't really argue with that!

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

After having experienced last adventure with Rob, I am back on my road for upgrading my speakers. My dealer actually offer me a sweet deal on some ex-demo Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento...looking like brand new and coming with a full warranty...but a 20% discount!

Maybe a few months ago I would jump quickly on the offer without thinking twice...today I am kind of wondering if this would be a wise move. I am trying to understand if this could be my ultimate speakers or I will soon regret haveing spent this amount of money on a standmount speaker...

I mean I love those speakers and I think they are a great match with my Jadis...but not sure if I won't be better off with nice floorstanders (new Venere model from SF are actually pretty good, not tried yet though)

Hope to see some nice thoughts and insights Wink

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

Hope to see some nice thoughts and insights Wink

I think you need to hear some Audio Note, Living Voice and JM Renaud with the Jadis, before deciding....if you haven't already.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:
will soon regret haveing spent this amount of money on a standmount speaker...

I mean I love those speakers and I think they are a great match with my Jadis...but not sure if I won't be better off with nice floorstanders

Instead of going for floorstanders have you considered using the Guarneri Memento standmounts with a separate subwoofer. That way you can have the best of both worlds.

Hi-Fi        AVI DM5

Head-Fi  Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2Di > Sennheisser HD700

Portable Sony NWZ-A847 > Westone UM3x

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

Hope to see some nice thoughts and insights Wink

I think you need to hear some Audio Note, Living Voice and JM Renaud with the Jadis, before deciding....if you haven't already.

Cno, I have heard the LV so far but not the AN and the JMR...not very impressed with the Living Voice...the GM just blew them but that was not fair competition I must admit!

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers RE: Tube-friendly speakers

steve_1979 wrote:

acalex wrote:
will soon regret haveing spent this amount of money on a standmount speaker...

I mean I love those speakers and I think they are a great match with my Jadis...but not sure if I won't be better off with nice floorstanders

Instead of going for floorstanders have you considered using the Guarneri Memento standmounts with a separate subwoofer. That way you can have the best of both worlds.

Steve, I actually don't mind not having a subwoofer as the Guarneri have plenty of bass for my taste! What would be the advantages/disadvantages of going for a standmount over a floorstander?

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:
What would be the advantages/disadvantages of going for a standmount over a floorstander?

I'm no expert so please take this explanation with a pinch of salt and bare in mind that I'm generalizing here. Smile

The mid-range is the most important part of the music because these are the frequencies that our ears and brains are the most sensitive to.

Small standmount speakers tend to sound better than big floorstanders over the crucial mid-range frequencies. This is due to the way our ears and brains have evolved over thousands of years which mean that sounds (especially vocals) originating from a head sized speaker sound more natural to us. Small speakers also have a better stereo image and they have the advantage of radiating almost omnidirectionally too.

Big floorstanding speakers have issues with internal standing waves and the large external surfaces suffer more from cabinet edge diffraction than small speakers do. The big advantage that floorstanders do have over small standmount speakers is that they have a larger enclosure volume allowing them to reproduce deeper bass frequencies than small standmount speakers can.

By using various porting and tuning techniques it's possible to make a small speaker that sounds like it has more bass by boosting some of the mid-bass frequencies or by making them boom. But it's imposssible to make a small speaker that can produce deep bass.

This is why I think that a good pair or non boomy standmount speakers used together with a high quality subwoofer can give you the best of both worlds.

Having said this most standmount speakers boom and most subwoofers are designed to be loud 'one note boomers'* that are only intended to be used as part of home cinema setups. If you want to hear a 2.1 system that sounds good with music have a listen to some AVI 2.1 speakers, Genelec 2.1 speakers or the Acoustic Energy ProSat / ProSub speakers.

 

* Over exaggerated generalization. :grin:

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

steve_1979 wrote:

Small standmount speakers tend to sound better than big floorstanders over the crucial mid-range frequencies. This is due to the way our ears and brains have evolved over thousands of years which mean that sounds (especially vocals) originating from a head sized speaker sound more natural to us.

Now it's my turn to mostly agree with you.

I have never heard the above theory before, which doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. Are you saying the mid-range "appears" better because its coming from a head sized object, even though it may not be.

I have to say I've never found this, in fact very often I find that the mids sound better when "in balance" from a speaker with a fuller range...subjective, I know.

The sub issue is not straight forward as integration can be problematical - even when you have a sub good enough for the job. Saying that it can be done, but care is needed to make sure the speakers and sub are completely in phase and any extra bass issues are dealt with.

Other than that, I'm in complete agreement. Standmounts are usually better at imaging, timing and speed. They can often sound more intimate and real due to these qualities, as one's ear and brain are more discriminating than is often realized (imo).

Floorstanders do scale, but it is much harder to make a good one cheaply, due to the problems/compromises you mentioned. At equivalent money, the standmount is usually better, as the money it costs to make, goes further.

Generally speaking room size ends up being the key...for obvious reasons.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Thanks to Steve and Cno for extremely clear and excellent explanations...you really pin pointed the pro and cons of both worlds...now I have a much better view. I especially agree on the fact that the SFG sounded more intimate than any other speaker I tried (only floorstanders). They also had a stunning image and focus...it was like watching a 3d image in front of you

I guess with more complex music (like big orchestras) the small speaker might start to show its limits. I might take those back home and see what happens in my room which is around 4x5 meters being maybe a bit on the reflective side. 

 

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