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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

Now I am wondering...was it really a phase problem? As I could always here the image and the sound coming from between the speakers. 

I had connected plus of speakers (red terminal) with red terminal on amplifier using the "red loudspeaker cable". Same for black, on both speakers of course. 

Then I simply put the red cable into the blac connector on amplifier, on both sides. So now I have the red cable which starts in the red terminal on speakers and ends on black terminal on amplifier. Would that be an out of phase problem?

Thanks

This is one for the dealer, or ring Jadis directly. I have always wired my speakers Red -> Red and Black -> Black.

I believe a problem arises if one speaker is wired differently to the other ie. If one cone is "pushing", while the other is "pulling", the sound waves cancel each other out to some extent.  If both are wired wrong, they are at least working together so, you should be OK......check this out though.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

Now I am wondering...was it really a phase problem? As I could always here the image and the sound coming from between the speakers. 

I had connected plus of speakers (red terminal) with red terminal on amplifier using the "red loudspeaker cable". Same for black, on both speakers of course. 

Then I simply put the red cable into the blac connector on amplifier, on both sides. So now I have the red cable which starts in the red terminal on speakers and ends on black terminal on amplifier. Would that be an out of phase problem?

Thanks

This is one for the dealer, or ring Jadis directly. I have always wired my speakers Red -> Red and Black -> Black.

I believe a problem arises if one speaker is wired differently to the other ie. If one cone is "pushing", while the other is "pulling", the sound waves cancel each other out to some extent.  If both are wired wrong, they are at least working together so, you should be OK......check this out though.

Yes exactly...this is how it was. Both were red-red and black-black using the according cable. Now is red-black on both sides (I just swapped the connector on the amp side for each channel).

Jadis confirmed this is the way it should be connected...

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

Jadis confirmed this is the way it should be connected...

How much difference has it made, as strictly speaking, your speakers were always wired the same as each other?

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

Jadis confirmed this is the way it should be connected...

How much difference has it made, as strictly speaking, your speakers were always wired the same as each other?

Yes, both speakers were always wired the same way so they were both wired "wrong" if this is the case. 

Strictly speaking...it wasn't at all a nice and day difference but a little bit more clarity and focus (but again the imaging was already centered before...) and the bass feels a bit fuller and solid (especially on digital). It exacerbated a little bit the overwhelming bass sometimes (especially on vinyl)

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

Yes, both speakers were always wired the same way so they were both wired "wrong" if this is the case. 

Strictly speaking...it wasn't at all a nice and day difference but a little bit more clarity and focus (but again the imaging was already centered before...) and the bass feels a bit fuller and solid (especially on digital). It exacerbated a little bit the overwhelming bass sometimes (especially on vinyl)

There are more technical types on here who will know for sure, but despite them both being wired wrongly, they shouldn't have been out of phase (with each other). What effect this might have on the sound (with the Jadis), I'm not sure.....but Jadis will, and your dealer should.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

Yes, both speakers were always wired the same way so they were both wired "wrong" if this is the case. 

Strictly speaking...it wasn't at all a nice and day difference but a little bit more clarity and focus (but again the imaging was already centered before...) and the bass feels a bit fuller and solid (especially on digital). It exacerbated a little bit the overwhelming bass sometimes (especially on vinyl)

There are more technical types on here who will know for sure, but despite them both being wired wrongly, they shouldn't have been out of phase (with each other). What effect this might have on the sound (with the Jadis), I'm not sure.....but Jadis will, and your dealer should.

Ah yes for sure...they were not out pf phase with each other!!! I think this has been the misunderstanding...I think the absolute phase was just inverted...as I read on another forum which I guess can't post Smile

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

Ah yes for sure...they were not out pf phase with each other!!! I think this has been the misunderstanding...I think the absolute phase was just inverted...as I read on another forum which I guess can't post Smile

You can now link to other forums if you wish.

Now with Vertere cables, it may well be vital to get this right, as their Red (AC current) and Black (DC ground) wires are totally different - see 6th photo down (on post 6); http://www.whathifi.com/forum/accessories/an-evening-with-touraj-moghaddam-vertere?page=2 

I think this radical difference to any other cable on the market, is what sets them apart and makes them interesting.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Years ago, I used to test for +ve and -ve on unmarked s/c with a battery. If the cone of the speaker moved "out" when the ends of the cable were briefly touched to the battery, then the wire connected to the +ve on the battery, was the +ve on the speaker, and vica versa.

I also think that correct phase and correct polarity are djfferent.

Phase (I think) only refers to whether the speakers are working in sync (ie. in phase) with each other, or not (out of phase)

Polarity is about the +ve and -ve, and can be changed at one end (eg. of both speakers)....getting this wrong (on both speakers) will probably be much more diiicult to detect (compared to incorrect phase), but could result in a little loss of bass / imaging.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

You correct phase by changing polarity. If your speakers are in phase then switching polarity puts them out of phase.

It's a trick often used in crossovers - some second order designs require you to switch the polarity for the tweeter as the crossover puts it 180° out of phase with the bass/mid.

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

altruistic.lemon wrote:

You correct phase by changing polarity. If your speakers are in phase then switching polarity puts them out of phase.

It's a trick often used in crossovers - some second order designs require you to switch the polarity for the tweeter as the crossover puts it 180° out of phase with the bass/mid.

AL, if both speakers are in phase, but the polarity (of both) are reversed, to what extent will it show in the sound?

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

Remember you've just put the drivers in the speakers out of phase, too. Try here: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php . You'll have the woofers operationg in reverse, too, so you'd expect big sound degeneration - no bass.

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Remember you've just put the drivers in the speakers out of phase, too. Try here: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

Since I don't have a problem, this is purely out of academic interest.

As I understand it, the polarity determins whether the speaker cones move out or in, relative to the voltage polarity of the signal.....so if both speakers are wired wrongly (which I think is called reversing the "Absolute Phase"), but in the same way, they will still be in phase with each other. Is this correct, and how easy is it to detect by the way they sound (as they are still in phase with each other)?

Sorry if I'm being thick about this

Cno

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

CnoEvil wrote:

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Remember you've just put the drivers in the speakers out of phase, too. Try here: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

Since I don't have a problem, this is purely out of academic interest.

As I understand it, the polarity determins whether the speaker cones move out or in, relative to the voltage polarity of the signal.....so if both speakers are wired wrongly (which I think is called reversing the "Absolute Phase"), but in the same way, they will still be in phase with each other. Is this correct, and how easy is it to detect by the way they sound (as they are still in phase with each other)?

Sorry if I'm being thick about this

Cno

Yes, this was the situation as both speakers were connected red-red and black-blac instead of being connected red-black and red-black as manual said.

Imaging and bass were both presents...at what degree this I can't be sure...

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

acalex wrote:

 I will send an email to them tomorrow morning and see how they will react.

Any word yet?

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Tube-friendly speakers

CnoEvil wrote:

acalex wrote:

 I will send an email to them tomorrow morning and see how they will react.

Any word yet?

Completely forgot, just sent the emai 3 minutes ago  :wall:

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