At this moment they only sell Arcam and Anthem.
Which must beg the question: What are they smoking, or have Arcam radically improved their AVR reliability? (I'm not saying their latest ones have not improved but they've had a reputation...). And Arcam AVRs are incredibly expensive, even their entry-level models. And you Spaniards ought to be saving right now
Coming back to AVRs and stereo music reproduction WHF have been impressed by Sony's latest 500 quid model, it could be entirely true that RecordSpot's Onkyo genuinely sounds good, albeit in 'pure audio' mode, but he seems to be generally impressed.
It's the same with my expensive CA751BD player possibly being now outclassed in all respects by much cheaper players.
Also, it's horses for courses really. RecordSpot is happy so kudos to him.
Arcam Solo Mini/Monitor Audio RX1/Cambridge Audio 751BD/Samsung 37” LCD
I've never heard an AV amp that sounds as good as a dedicated stereo one, and don't really know why you'd want one if you're not interested in home cinema., but each to his own.
The other thing that puts me off is their size and weight - they're not the most attractive of devices, are they?
Yes, but if the OP ever decides to dabble in 5.1 he won't be in tears and won't have to lay out more cash on the amp side. And it can always be hidden behind a cabinet.
Like the CD player is dying, I would not be surprised if the dedicated stereo amp also becomes a niche product several years ahead.
Also, which sub-500 quid stereo amp is good looking?? It's only the Marantz that comes to mind. Your CAs and Rotels all look the same. And NAD amps, at any price, are uglier than any AVR amps apart from their own
I am pleased RS that you have found the 818 has exceeded your expectations and that you are very pleased with it. What is important is that you enjoy how it sounds.
I would seriously consider an AVR in the future, even if only used in 2ch mode, because of the extra functionality - Airplay, Wi-Fi, even Bluetooth on the new Onkyo models, plus power to spare and the possibilities for expanding into a 5.1/7.1 etc setup if so inclined.
I even quite like the look of the new Sony AVRs...
Music: Yamaha MCR-140 / Cambridge Audio Minx Go
Movies: LG 32LN5400 / Sony BDP-S1100
I have owned 5 AVRs because I love CINEMA. This is the main purpose of multichannel AVRs. You seem to be the only iluminated in this forum who has purchased a multichannel home cinema to use it with 2 channels. First I thought that it was a joke but, well later I found that the only joke here is yourself.
I like movies too, but who told you that contemporary AVR amps are solely geared up for movies and nought else? Why are manufacturers like Onkyo and Marantz and others offering network connectivity and onboard music streaming services like Last FM, Spotify or Internet Radio options? Because, to follow your analogy to its logical conclusion, they wouldn't be going anywhere offering those services otherwise if movies were all they were interested in. No, they'd offer Lovefilm, or Netflix, or the like.
Regarding "old prejudes audiophile depresing mantra" bla, bla, bla.... I still have not seen any review of any AVR from WHF where they classify any AVR as anything better than good for music (never seen "very good" or, extraordinary, etc.). Every review where they state that the AVR is good with music also contains the sentence "not as good as a dedicated stereo amp". Read the lates Sony, Denon and Yamaha reviews.
Others have mentioned WHF's current 818 review. Here are some others from Hi Fi World's website. Noel Keywood has extensively rated previous Onkyo amps and I subscribe to that title so I've read his reviews over the years and am familiar with Onkyo's pedigree:-
I have also previously added a link for your reading pleasure .
Here is the curriculum of this guy in the article:
"Ex-movie theater projectionist Steve Guttenberg has also worked as a high-end audio salesman, and as a record producer. Steve currently reviews audio products for CNET and works as a freelance writer for Home Theater, Inner Fidelity, Tone Audio, and Stereophile."
Let me tell you something, if I have to choose who I have to believe between WHF, expert opnions, reputable forum members, my own experience over many hi-fi years and yourself, well let me think....
I read that article by coincidence the other day, but the premise is redundant. You could apply the same logic about many of yesterday's amps, speakers, turntables or open-reel decks. You'll also find a load of old dross as well, so there are no absolutes here. Personally, I love Sansui's 700-series amps and think they stack up against anything, but times and needs change.
The author's experience is pretty much neither here nor there. I work as a freelance business analyst and ask questions for a living. Open ones, closed ones, ones that challenge perceptions across a wide range of people. Oh, and I've been listening to audio for about 35 years now, plus another ten on top of that with my mum and dad's old Dansette Viva record player. I've owned a pile of stuff over the last 30 years and so, clearly, I have nothing worth adding to this debate. Clearly. I just question a lot of what is "out there" or is perceived as fact, when really, it's just opinion.
Go tell about your "old audiophile bad karma from oldtimes" blablabla to anyone who is as ignorant as you. Listen to real systems before you open your mouth or at least if that is not possible... read somenthing.
LOL, how many wrong conclusions is it possible for someone to jump to? You have no ideea about me, or made any attempt to do anything but bulldoze what you think of as "reality" to this thread. Sorry, but I ascribe to the theory of "don't believe everything you think". Works for me. Oh, and I've been to a stack of shows over the years, listened to traditional hifi, active systems, analogue, digital and god knows what else. So please don't try and lecture me when you've clearly no idea what you're talking about.
You started last year with a post on your 8050 where you convinced everybody that you found the holly grail.
Yes, it's a very good amp. I didn't realise I had "convinced" everyone. I expressed my views, which remain. My opinions now are as they were then, it doesn't offer Master Audio, but it was as close as anything else that delivered all I was after at the time.
Many people purchased this based on your passionate review where you compared with much higher level stereo amps.
Don't let your mouth write a cheque your tail can't cash. Check the web and see how many happy owners of the 8050 there are out there. I think it's listed in the hundreds who have bothered to review the thing or express their opinions on it. The majority of those I read loved it. And yes, I would and do still rate it as "up there" with more expensive amps. However, what people then choose to buy is their issue; I don't spend their money for them and they are responsible for how they do that, not me.
Now a year later you change it for AVR to use with 2 channel. At least you have addmited that you already stop looking for good sound some time ago. Maybe next year you will buy an "iron machine" with speakers and we will see that again "ticks" all the boxes and sounds as good as any stereo amp you have heard. You are a bluff.
Haha, I'm a bluff am I? Well, better that than spouting the bible on audio and stating some stone age beliefs that are dying out with every passing year. I don't need lectured by some internet troll about what good sound is; got that one covered off nicely thanks - good masterings, good recordings and some great gear to play it on. Shame you can't bring yourself to try out the products you're running down, then I'd have some respect for your views and for you.
Onkyo TX-NR818 / Tannoy DC4 speakers / Marantz UD-7007
AVI Lab Series CD player / various cables
Crikey you've got a bug up your EDITED.
Ive thought for some time that a competent AVR can compete very well with so called hi Fi amps. Perhaps you could explain technically why they shouldn't.
Times are changing. We want our devices to do multiple things. I see no real attraction in some over priced lump that offers nothing more than the ability to get music out of my speakers. 2 ch audiophile purists are hanging on by their fingernails.
Yep Richard, I've felt integrated amps lacked what I needed from then for years. With this amp, I can get high quality sound from a variety of sources, onboard DACs, onboard means to biwire thanks to multiple amps, a smart package, build quality that's excellent, get internet access, and much more.
However, for rendu's benefit if no-one else's, I wouldn't have been parting with the money I did if it didn't offer me the sound quality I expect. I don't give two hoots for his opinion, but the logical fallacy he's opted to go for is beyond mirth: why would someone who values good quality sound buy something that didn't offer it and then keep it?!?
Richardw42, I am not a technical engineer but I believe that the article explains very well the logic; If you dedicate 1000 pound on 2 channel vs 1000 in : 9 channel, 2 subwoofer output, networking connectivity, 8 HDMI input, 2 HDMI output , etc.... When it comes to 2 channel reproducition the pure stereo amp should win. This is my experience also. I am the first one here who wish that the modern AVRs sounded good in stereo because I own one but honestly it is not the case, at least for me I am not happy with it.
Yes, and there's the crux of it. You're not happy with it. But you don't say what you're not happy with beyond spouting the same tired old stuff that audiophiles get fed and buy into. So why would you buy the Onkyo TX-8050? Because I had said it was good? Would you have bought blind? Would you have listened to it first, because rest assured that amp is pretty much an Onkyo AV amp minus the video related functionality.
Here's a tip - you are welcome to your views, but don't tell anyone they're wrong when they've made up theri mind, through a logical and reasoned conclusion that they've reached through their own research and experience. You'll get a far easier time - not least from me, seeing as it's my thread in this case - than you currently are.
Drummerman you have hit one nail on the head. I am not criticising the engineering content of AVRs, I am critizasing the final result in terms of pure stereo sound. I do not consider myself an audiophile or snobb either, not at all.
So you've derided my buying choices, based on my own conclusions, reasons for buying and wants (not that you know all of them) and you're suggesting that it's not reasonable to think that you're a snob? You may well not be a snob, but you're presaence on this thread to date has been indicative of one.
Wow. This is turning into some heated thread, which is saying something round here at present.
Times are changing and it is the people who are prepared to embrace these changes, and consider all options who will end up getting the best value for money in the future.
Firstly, reviews in any magazine are not the be-all by any stretch of the imagination, and neither are the conclusions of an ex 'high-end audio salesman'. When high end includes products like the ludicrous Krell Connect streamer featured in the News pages of this website yesterday, you have to start to ask a few questions. £2,500 for a streamer that doesn't even include a DAC chip and analogue output stage? £1,000 extra if you want the DAC chip and analogue output stage? So what are you actually getting for £2,500 apart from a pretty ugly looking (but probably well made) box packed with lots of air and the ability to process digital files? Seemingly Krell think its great that their £2.5k box can play gaplessly. Well I should bleeding hope so at that price, when my Squeezebox Touch which cost me £180 can do it.
The last thing I've ever wanted to be is an 'audiophile'. To me it is simply a nom-de-plume for snobbery, one up-man-ship, and believing everything you read, rather than being driven by the music. There is so much drivel in this industry and so many opportunities for spending lots of money for little or no gain, filling the home with upgraded power supplies, stupidly priced cables (I'm talking about ridiculous things like the £6.5k Crystal Cable USB recommended in the last HFN), and paying good money for revolutionary technology that just doesn't work (take the early Servo Evolution CD transports from Cyrus, which picked which discs they wanted to play).
The best gear I've owned has been the Denon stuff (particularly the PMA1500AE/DCD1500AE, but also the PMA720AE I have now and for its price the RCD-M39DAB), the Onkyo TX-8050 (yes it is a cracking piece of kit) and the Cambridge Audio 740A and 740C. These items have given far more musical pleasure than the Audiolab, Arcam, Naim, Roksan and Cyrus items I've owned, and surely that is all it is about?
I did dally with an AV amp briefly but only a Yamaha RX-V667. As a £400 AV amp it did a creditable job with music, so I can well believe that RS's £1,000 Onkyo could be very impressive with 2-channel content and a particularly great bargain at the price he paid.
Yep, that pretty much sums it up too - nice post Matthew. It's all about enjoying the music for me and I try never to let the equipment get in the way of that. In time, if room and my wants change, I might go down the 5.1 route, but for now, I'm happy with 2 channel. It's done me nicely for a long time and the Tannoys do a fine job of projecting the sound across a wide range. But yes, the amp's excellent and gives me some future-proofing too.
As I've stated AL, I want an amp that will deliver good sound to both music and movies as I'll be using it with both. And while it's big, it's a rather sleek looking thing and very black. the pic I posted shows the lower fascia flap open, but I have it shut as the remote is fine. Music, I have no complaints with as my needs - fussy git that I am - are more than met. And what other audiophiles want from their gear is their issue to fix; I simply posted my own views on this fine amp for anyone who might be looking for a user's experience.
rendu that review is a load of rhubarb. Under sound it does not even mention sound, just how many watts per channel etc. If you relie on reviews like that then good luck.
You can also look at the reviews of the A1010, A3010, A1020 and A3020 in WHF if you prefer, they all got 5 stars.
Yes, they do and they'r ea guide, but if you buy blind you run the risk. I bought blind this time (as I did with the 8050), but knew that I could return the amp to Richer Sounds within 7 days. I won't be as it gives me what I want, but reviews are just part of the story. I am reminded of a Saxon CD player some years ago that WHF gave 1 star, but Hi Fi World gave 4. Who's right?
Was looking at this offer on an email today.....very tempting!!!
I bought a Marantz PM6004 to help with 2 channel music last year, but rarely use my CD player these days. Its on and running the front speakers with tv/blu ray, but wonder if this machine would be a good compromise as a replacement for my denon/marantz combo....especially at this price!!
AV: Panny TX-P50X60B | Denon AVR2310 | KEF Q100/Q200/3001SE Eggs | AE Radiance Sub | Panasonic BDT320 | Humax HDR-FoxT2 | Xbox/Kinect | Various Chord cables | Tacima CS929
Hifi: Marantz CD63MKII KI | Marantz PM6004 | Tacima CS929 | Chord Odyssey 2
Sorry repeat post....thanks iPad!!!
Shouldn't this thread be in 'Home cinema'?
I'll get me coat...
Marantz M-CR603 • Rega R3 loudspeakers • AirPlay • Apple iPad Mini • Apple iPhone 5 • Apple iMac • Apple AirPort Extreme 802.11N • Humax HDR-Fox T2 • Panasonic TX-L32D25B • Sony BDP-S390
Lol.....probably! Not my department though
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