I did laugh when I saw this thread today. I've been away for 5 days at my partners, sans WHF and I happened to mention in passing the 818 to her only a couple of days ago. The look I got when I told her/excitedly explained biamping was priceless
It's a curse I tell ya, it's a curse!
Onkyo TX-NR818 / Tannoy DC4 speakers / Marantz UD-7007
AVI Lab Series CD player / various cables
Well, maybe once upon a time, but this amp proves there's at least one AV amp out there that can deliver.
Yes, you did say so, but appart from insulting others pretty good you also seem be able to say 5 lies out of 4 words. You definetly seem to "tick all the boxes" also like your lovely amps.
I have owned 5 AVRs because I love CINEMA. This is the main purpose of multichannel AVRs. You seem to be the only iluminated in this forum who has purchased a multichannel home cinema to use it with 2 channels. First I thought that it was a joke but, well later I found that the only joke here is yourself.
Regarding "old prejudes audiophile depresing mantra" bla, bla, bla.... I still have not seen any review of any AVR from WHF where they classify any AVR as anything better than good for music (never seen "very good" or, extraordinary, etc.). Every review where they state that the AVR is good with music also contains the sentence "not as good as a dedicated stereo amp". Read the lates Sony, Denon and Yamaha reviews.
I have also previously added a link for your reading pleasure .
Here is the curriculum of this guy in the article:
"Ex-movie theater projectionist Steve Guttenberg has also worked as a high-end audio salesman, and as a record producer. Steve currently reviews audio products for CNET and works as a freelance writer for Home Theater, Inner Fidelity, Tone Audio, and Stereophile."
Let me tell you something, if I have to choose who I have to believe between WHF, expert opnions, reputable forum members, my own experience over many hi-fi years and yourself, well let me think....
Go tell about your "old audiophile bad karma from oldtimes" blablabla to anyone who is as ignorant as you. Listen to real systems before you open your mouth or at least if that is not possible... read somenthing.
You started last year with a post on your 8050 where you convinced everybody that you found the holly grail. Many people purchased this based on your passionate review where you compared with much higher level stereo amps. Now a year later you change it for AVR to use with 2 channel. At least you have addmited that you already stop looking for good sound some time ago. Maybe next year you will buy an "iron machine" with speakers and we will see that again "ticks" all the boxes and sounds as good as any stereo amp you have heard. You are a bluff.
Onkyo 818, Dali Ikon 1, Dali suite C0.7, Wharfedale DFS and Wharfedale SW150. Synology 112J NAS with 2 TB WD red HD. PS3 slim. Harmony 600, Optoma HD65 proyector.
Sonic impact T-amp with Whafedale 9SR.
Crikey you've got a bug up your EDITED.
Ive thought for some time that a competent AVR can compete very well with so called hi Fi amps. Perhaps you could explain technically why they shouldn't.
Times are changing. We want our devices to do multiple things. I see no real attraction in some over priced lump that offers nothing more than the ability to get music out of my speakers. 2 ch audiophile purists are hanging on by their fingernails.
TV room : Samsung 60" plasma-ATV3, -AVI ADM40, DM5 in 4.0,/Sonos ZP90,, Sky using Sonos for On Demand, PS4, Sony BDP S570 thru a Yamaha RXV3067.
HiFi : Sonos ZP90 - AVI ADM9 RSS + AVI SUB
Bedrooms : 2 x Sonos Play 3
IPad Air for Sonos & Spotify / AKG K551
rendu have a look at this review: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/editorial/onkyo-tx-nr818
Well rendu, I use an AV receiver exclusively for 2 channel (2.1) in the main system.
I also have a few stereo amplifiers.
Pretty ... and pretty proud of it
Richardw42, I am not a technical engineer but I believe that the article explains very well the logic; If you dedicate 1000 pound on 2 channel vs 1000 in : 9 channel, 2 subwoofer output, networking connectivity, 8 HDMI input, 2 HDMI output , etc.... When it comes to 2 channel reproducition the pure stereo amp should win. This is my experience also. I am the first one here who wish that the modern AVRs sounded good in stereo because I own one but honestly it is not the case, at least for me I am not happy with it.
Wow. This is turning into some heated thread, which is saying something round here at present.
Times are changing and it is the people who are prepared to embrace these changes, and consider all options who will end up getting the best value for money in the future.
Firstly, reviews in any magazine are not the be-all by any stretch of the imagination, and neither are the conclusions of an ex 'high-end audio salesman'. When high end includes products like the ludicrous Krell Connect streamer featured in the News pages of this website yesterday, you have to start to ask a few questions. £2,500 for a streamer that doesn't even include a DAC chip and analogue output stage? £1,000 extra if you want the DAC chip and analogue output stage? So what are you actually getting for £2,500 apart from a pretty ugly looking (but probably well made) box packed with lots of air and the ability to process digital files? Seemingly Krell think its great that their £2.5k box can play gaplessly. Well I should bleeding hope so at that price, when my Squeezebox Touch which cost me £180 can do it.
The last thing I've ever wanted to be is an 'audiophile'. To me it is simply a nom-de-plume for snobbery, one up-man-ship, and believing everything you read, rather than being driven by the music. There is so much drivel in this industry and so many opportunities for spending lots of money for little or no gain, filling the home with upgraded power supplies, stupidly priced cables (I'm talking about ridiculous things like the £6.5k Crystal Cable USB recommended in the last HFN), and paying good money for revolutionary technology that just doesn't work (take the early Servo Evolution CD transports from Cyrus, which picked which discs they wanted to play).
The best gear I've owned has been the Denon stuff (particularly the PMA1500AE/DCD1500AE, but also the PMA720AE I have now and for its price the RCD-M39DAB), the Onkyo TX-8050 (yes it is a cracking piece of kit) and the Cambridge Audio 740A and 740C. These items have given far more musical pleasure than the Audiolab, Arcam, Naim, Roksan and Cyrus items I've owned, and surely that is all it is about?
I did dally with an AV amp briefly but only a Yamaha RX-V667. As a £400 AV amp it did a creditable job with music, so I can well believe that RS's £1,000 Onkyo could be very impressive with 2-channel content and a particularly great bargain at the price he paid.
Sources: Rega RP3/Elys 2 - Roksan Kandy K2 CDS Phono Stage Cambridge Audio 540P
Amplification: Exposure 1010
Speakers: Dynaudio DM2/6
Listening to MUSIC!
It looks very good review, honestly.
Here is a review of my own amp...
It is as good as the one on the Onkyo and, I can tell you without any doubts that in my case it does not meet my music expectations. Before this one, I have owned an Arcam AVR280 and before that one I owned an Onkyo 702 and so on. There is actually another post out there on the new Yamaha 2020 (1500 pound) where the owner compared this with his Marantz 6004 (400 pount) for music and he concluded that it was no replacement so, he had to keep the 6004. I agree with your review that the AVRs have improved and I only can hope that they will continue to improve even more and close the gap once and for all. With previous AVR like my first Onkyo 505 you could not even listen to music because it hurted. Now with the A2010 at least I enjoy some of the music.
There is one famous hi-fi shop in Spain in Barcelona which after 2 years they stopped selling AVRs because their customers where returning too many of them. At this moment they only sell Arcam and Anthem.
I see you are using a Sonic T-amp.
As far as I know, they produce 2digit distortion figures for anything above about 8watts and around 3 to 5 watts with half decent low distortion. Dynamic power is, if I am correct, almost non-existent because of topology used.
Looking at the above and everything we know about power supply, distortion etc your T-amplifier should not be able to produce either volume or the dynamics of music properly yet I know that some people, even experienced ones (hoopsontoast) praise some of these small boxes.
However, I dont quite understand how you can criticise engineering content of AV receivers, some of which measure as good and in some instances better than 2 channel amplifiers yet yourself you use what is surely one of the most technically compromised products on the market?
Dont forget that economy of scale is also at work here. Specialist stereo amplifiers are produced in smaller quantities than AV receivers. You therefore often pay for development cost and exclusivity, most of which have either long been absorbed or are not an issue with products from the likes of Onkyo, Yamaha, Sony etc etc.
rendu that review is a load of rhubarb. Under sound it does not even mention sound, just how many watts per channel etc. If you relie on reviews like that then good luck.
Drummerman you have hit one nail on the head. I am not criticising the engineering content of AVRs, I am critizasing the final result in terms of pure stereo sound. I do not consider myself an audiophile or snobb either, not at all.
The small sonic T-amp (30 Eur) that you have mentioned is a gem in terms of pure stereo sound. Some days when I have time, I disconnect my A2010 speakers and plug them into the Sonic impact just for fun and I always find myself looking how much I am enjoying the sound, every single song, natural, cristal clear, good bass and no strange effects. Pure stereo sound. It is a shame that a 30 Eur amp can beat a 1000 AVR in pure musical performance (without sub). It is ridiculous, this is what I find unnacceptable as an AVR customer.
I've never heard an AV amp that sounds as good as a dedicated stereo one, and don't really know why you'd want one if you're not interested in home cinema., but each to his own.
The other thing that puts me off is their size and weight - they're not the most attractive of devices, are they?
You can also look at the reviews of the A1010, A3010, A1020 and A3020 in WHF if you prefer, they all got 5 stars.
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