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Tarxman's picture
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Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

Hi all,

 

My Tannoy supplier has loaned me a pair of the DC6T revolution speakers to try out, so I've swapped out my Jamo c803 bookshelfs and connected up the Tannoy's. However, now I'm experiencing woofer flutter when I turn up the volume whilst listening to records. More so in the right speaker than the left, but I never had that with my Jamo's. Can anyone explain why? Or what I can do to eliminate it?

 

Cheers,

Tarkan.

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

Hmm, loks like some instability in the system somewhere and / or acoustic feedback.  The Tannoys go a lot lower than your previous loudspeakers.  What is your deck standing on?

 

 

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

What amp are you using? Are you using a Turntable? Does turning the volume down help?

proffski's picture
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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

I had a similar problem many years ago with a Thorens, Ortofon MC20, Radford HD 500 and KEF 104aBs.  Cured by mounting deck on shelf / brick wall.

 

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

Could just be that your records aren't too flat, and the Tannoys are simply more revealing of the minor warping

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

One of the joys of vinyl. Some amplifiers have a subsonic filter to reduce it. If you are using a high compliance cartridge in a high mass arm that can exacerbate it.

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

Some truths in the above threads, put together you get this.

Your record player is outputting substantial low frequency noise, probably subsonic. This can be caused by warped or eccentric records and/or external noise getting into your player through whatever it is sitting om

Your amplifier has a sub bass response that is not curtailed in any way so is passing this unwanted grunge straight to your speakers. This is poor design, but since few people play records the manufacturers do not consider it an issue.

Your Tannoy speakers are ported to extend bass response but at the frequencies we are discussing there is effectively no loading on the bass cone, so the cone excursion is huge. Given that warp noise etc is pretty predictable in terms of frequency, this is more poor design by the manufacturers.

How to fix it.

1) Switch on the high pass 'rumble' filter on your amplifier, if it does not have one change it for one that does, or at least onr that has a properly rolled off bass response on it's phono input. You might be able to effect such a change by simply buying a suitable phono stage rather than changing the whole amplifier.

2) Buy a decent tuntable support, for the suppression of low bass frequencies light and ridged should be better than massive. Wall mounting, if possible, is a good option.

3) if you are still having problems you need to investigate the resonant frequency of the arm cartridge combination , it may be too close to the warp noise and magnifying the problem.

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

With extreme care and the platter NOT rotating lower the arm onto the record.  With even greater caution raise the volume control being ready to go to minimum!  At a certain point microphony may set in, back off a little and tap the deck base observing the loudspeaker cones with a firm grasp on the volume control!

The earlier comment regarding cartridge compliance and arm mass is very important as is whatever the turntable is standing on.  Try the floor... unless it is wooden.  Is the 'flutter' the same level on all records or does it differ?

Please keep us informed.  Good Luck!!!

 

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

My guess is your smaller speakers are sealed boxes and the new speakers are ported.

If the records are warped a ported speaker will do as you describe and this is why some phono stages have a warp filter that cuts off the low bass.

You will get the same effect with cd if you try and play deep organ music at high volumes then you will see the speaker cones working like crazy trying to play the deep notes even when you cant hear them.

 

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

I guess it should be explained, for the youngsters amongst us, that 'listening to records' means playing vinyl.

So, yes, I guess a turntable would be involved somewhere. :grin:

Loads of second hand expensive kit!

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

davedotco wrote:

Some truths in the above threads, put together you get this.

Your record player is outputting substantial low frequency noise, probably subsonic. This can be caused by warped or eccentric records and/or external noise getting into your player through whatever it is sitting om

Your amplifier has a sub bass response that is not curtailed in any way so is passing this unwanted grunge straight to your speakers. This is poor design, but since few people play records the manufacturers do not consider it an issue.

Your Tannoy speakers are ported to extend bass response but at the frequencies we are discussing there is effectively no loading on the bass cone, so the cone excursion is huge. Given that warp noise etc is pretty predictable in terms of frequency, this is more poor design by the manufacturers.

How to fix it.

1) Switch on the high pass 'rumble' filter on your amplifier, if it does not have one change it for one that does, or at least onr that has a properly rolled off bass response on it's phono input. You might be able to effect such a change by simply buying a suitable phono stage rather than changing the whole amplifier.

2) Buy a decent tuntable support, for the suppression of low bass frequencies light and ridged should be better than massive. Wall mounting, if possible, is a good option.

3) if you are still having problems you need to investigate the resonant frequency of the arm cartridge combination , it may be too close to the warp noise and magnifying the problem.

or 4) Simply return the loaned Tannoys to the dealer! Smile

Loads of second hand expensive kit!

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

Alears wrote:

davedotco wrote:

Some truths in the above threads, put together you get this.

Your record player is outputting substantial low frequency noise, probably subsonic. This can be caused by warped or eccentric records and/or external noise getting into your player through whatever it is sitting om

Your amplifier has a sub bass response that is not curtailed in any way so is passing this unwanted grunge straight to your speakers. This is poor design, but since few people play records the manufacturers do not consider it an issue.

Your Tannoy speakers are ported to extend bass response but at the frequencies we are discussing there is effectively no loading on the bass cone, so the cone excursion is huge. Given that warp noise etc is pretty predictable in terms of frequency, this is more poor design by the manufacturers.

How to fix it.

1) Switch on the high pass 'rumble' filter on your amplifier, if it does not have one change it for one that does, or at least onr that has a properly rolled off bass response on it's phono input. You might be able to effect such a change by simply buying a suitable phono stage rather than changing the whole amplifier.

2) Buy a decent tuntable support, for the suppression of low bass frequencies light and ridged should be better than massive. Wall mounting, if possible, is a good option.

3) if you are still having problems you need to investigate the resonant frequency of the arm cartridge combination , it may be too close to the warp noise and magnifying the problem.

or 4) Simply return the loaned Tannoys to the dealer! Smile

Not my favourite speakers so not a bad idea!

Seriously though, the problem is still there, substantial amounts of low frequency grunge using up amplifier power and screwing up the sound in ways too tedious to get into, just because you can not see the cones flapping does not mean the problem has gone away.

If the OP wants to get anything resembling decent reproduction from his vinyl there is some work to be done.

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

Thanks all for the feedback, and sorry it's taken me so long to get back. I have since disconnected the Tannoy's and gone back to my standmounters which are a pair of C803 Jamo's. Perspective is an interesting thing though. Thought I was ready to replace them, but after having the Tannoy's connected for a few weeks and switching back, I've realised just how good a speaker they are, which is something I never thought I'd say about a Jamo speaker. Now just need to save for a better amp  Wink

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RE: Tannoy DC6T Woofer Flutter

Tarxman wrote:

Thanks all for the feedback, and sorry it's taken me so long to get back. I have since disconnected the Tannoy's and gone back to my standmounters which are a pair of C803 Jamo's. Perspective is an interesting thing though. Thought I was ready to replace them, but after having the Tannoy's connected for a few weeks and switching back, I've realised just how good a speaker they are, which is something I never thought I'd say about a Jamo speaker. Now just need to save for a better amp  Wink

Just be aware that the problem has not gone away, your amplifier is still using up a fair proportion of it's capability producing sub bass frequencies that you can't hear.

Work on your turntable support and try and sort that out, may be just about what it is sitting on and where it is in the room so not necessarily a costly venture.

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