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john dolan's picture
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RE: Supposing you were to start again

There was a chap a few months back bought ADM40s with a custom finish and hated the sound when he got them and found he couldnt return them for a refund so part exchanged them at a dealers for a Linn system and lost over a 1000 pounds on the 40s.

 

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

john dolan wrote:

There was a chap a few months back bought ADM40s with a custom finish and hated the sound when he got them and found he couldnt return them for a refund so part exchanged them at a dealers for a Linn system and lost over a 1000 pounds on the 40s.

Surely it was explained to him - before he paid - that he couldn't return them and there was no 'trial period'?

Why didn't he have a demo first?

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

Macspur wrote:

JMacMan wrote:

cse wrote:

JMacMan wrote:

.

At last I have kit that serves the needs of this predominately classical music lover, and with no audio foo or manufacturer attiude required for the total enjoyment thereof.

Call me an very, very happy, ex-audiophile..   Smile

 

JB   :cheers:

 

I would be very interested in knowing what you bought, as I only listen to classical as well and find I get very little good advice from the HIFI industry/shops as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi CSE

It's B&O kit - a TV which doubles as a surround sound processor/preamp, and has an fully active speakar array on board which can do double duty as the centre channel in an AV context, the active Beolab 9 speakers plug into it and the mains for their signal and power supply respectively.

Sources include a Sony Bluray player for movies and SACD, and for CD's I'm slowiy ripping all my collection to computer HD, and streaming from there to an Apple TV3 connected to the TV via HDMI.  This will allow me to put 1,000+ CD's away in the hall cupboard for safe keeping, rather than out in multiple storage racks in the lounge, and the sound quality is as good as any CD player that I have heard at any price, inluding my own Sony ES models from my previous system.

B&O is usually sniffed at by Audiophiles, who perceive it to be made for an allegedly 'lifestyle' market (I've never quite got the handle on this lifestyle comment, other than an audiophile put down of anything that looks nice as well as sounds good - surely good sound must mean all sorts of compromises to ones lifestyle, including putting up with quirky and fiddly gear to be considered 'serious' HiFi - ..lol) and possibly because it is active, it removes pretty much all of the add on accessories and tweaks beloved of both audiophiles and the retail HiFi industry.

True, it's quite expensive, and likely therefore to be the domain of the rich, but not necessarily very knowledgeable HiFi 'Buff', but also therein lies it's appeal to folks such as me who have been caught up in the whole HiFi separates audiophile scene over many years, and simply had more than enough of the marketing games, audiophile foo, and pseudo science practicised by audiophiles, manufacturers and the retail scene alike, and especially the attitude of some manufacturers where their approach to system builiding or their products is the 'right' one, and everyone else is 'wrong'.

B&O step right away from that sort of patronising audiophile arrogance, and for this classical music lover, are a delight to deal with as a company, and deliver a product of quality such as to last a lifetime.

 

JB

 

 As long as you're happy, that's the main thing.

Absolutely, and surely that's the main thing for most of us?

Looking at your sig, I could be very happy also with the Accuphase etc - a simply splendid amplifier - and whilst I recognise, respect and indeed have been there for many decades as regards the separates mixing and matching approach to HiFi system building, it's not one for me anymore speaking personally and with respect, as I've grown tired of playing about trying to 'tune' a system at an amateur, retail level, by mixing and matching components to try and obtain a suitable result.

You may even get better sound - perhaps - but I would think different, rather than better in any objective sense, for similar or less  money, - but not with the fiddle free, plug and play aspect of the B&O kit.

Some audiophiles like to look down their noses at B&O - I was one of them in my paid up Flat Earth, Naim owning days, for which I bought all new kit, but am much happier overall with the B&O solution - I'd have to say that of course!

But coming back to being happy with what we have - how hard is that?

Why is it that manufacturers and salespeople within the industry, and sometimes enthusiasts seek to belittle others choices, meantime suggesting ways of 'improving' things.  Are they desperate to sell, insecure and needing validation of their own choices or what?

I once had a acquaintance visit, who owned Audio Research kit amongst other things, and proceeded to sit in my lounge and tell me how my then Naim system was 'crap' etc, and how it could all so easily be bettered.  Maybe he thought he was helping; I just thought him rude and opinionated, and never invited him again - and he never actually heard the system either - just opinion garnered from reading reviews etc, etc, repeated as if it were provable fact..

I've never made a post anywhere, on any forum criticising AVI products, yet the courtesy has not been returned, as I have been told by one particular owner, who was in turn backed by the manufacturer, that they too will better my B&O's.

Naturally, no objective measurements or Blind ABX's have been made, no, - absolutely nothing so objective and scientific - just so called informed opinon from certain quarters is considered enough to bag a product.  

I don't mind people having understandable biases, and thinking what they like in terms of better, worse etc, when discussing kit, but why the need apart from the pressure to sell, or insecurity, to denigrate and belittle other peoples choices?  Certainly I have little doubt that If I went into a pub, and proceeded to bag someone for their taste and choices in cars, or clothes, girlfriend/boyfriend/wife etc, I'd likely be carried out on a stretcher, so why all the willy waving, one upmanship games, and snide put downs of others choices on internet HiFi forums?

Personally, I find this sort of behaviour and comment incredibly rude, arrogant and patronising, and it is one of the major reasons why, despite being interested in kit and technology per se, that I will have nothing to do in a commercial buying sense from so called audiophile companies and manufacturers that have 'attitude', atypically found in the past with the Linn/Naim Flat Earth Mantra, and the 'Your'e nobody without a Naim" advertising slogan etc that was used to promote their products.

I'm pretty sure most of us are happy in the main with our choices of kit, and certainly don't need manufacturers and retailers being rude and dismissive or our choices to try and drum up business.

It's part of what I detest about the so called hi end HiFi scene, and another reason why I'm very happy with the move into the B&O world re the customer and total ownership experience - it's light years away from what I've experienced elsewhere in the near 40 years I've been involved in this hobby, and thank goodness for that - it's a huge relief to not be caught up in that silly scene anymore.

 

:cheers:

 

JB

 

 

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

john dolan wrote:

There was a chap a few months back bought ADM40s with a custom finish and hated the sound when he got them and found he couldnt return them for a refund so part exchanged them at a dealers for a Linn system and lost over a 1000 pounds on the 40s.

 

 

Why did he not sell them, or course trading in you will lose money.

 

I'm sure we can all drag up unhappy owners this Cyrus owner is not too happy: "I purchased my Cyrus CD8 CD Player in 2004. I returned it for warranty repair due to constant “Disc error” readings. It finally gave up the ghost in March this year and was advised I probably needed a new carrier at around £300. I have used Quad equipment for over 30 years without a problem but I guess that’s another story. Cyrus offered an upgrade for £350 to the new CD8SE but said I would have to wait until August for the replacement kit  (4 months without CD player). I then started to hear of loading problems with the CD6SE and spoke to Peter the MD at Cyrus. I explained that I thought it unfair that I was being forced to upgrade because of a basic failing in his kit. He told me that the problem was with Philips and not Cyrus and that the new CDSE had solved the carrier problem. When I told him my Quad kit didn’t need replacing after 3 and a bit years he arrogantly replied “electrical kit is like a light bulb you never now when it is going to fail”. (Cyrus £1100…light bulb 29p)."

 

That was written in 2008. 

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

If i could have a home demo of the adm9s and they bettered my systemi would buy them but i cant so i havent.

The adm40 guy took the chance and didnt like what he heard so paid the price for it maybe the money involved is pocket change to him it isnt to me.

So much choice out there that will let you home dem why take a chance on something you cant hear first when the price is over 3k thats a big ask.

Even if you made the trip to AVI to hear the speakers you still dont know how they will sound in your own home.

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

john dolan wrote:

If i could have a home demo of the adm9s and they bettered my systemi would buy them but i cant so i havent.

The adm40 guy took the chance and didnt like what he heard so paid the price for it maybe the money involved is pocket change to him it isnt to me.

So much choice out there that will let you home dem why take a chance on something you cant hear first when the price is over 3k thats a big ask.

Even if you made the trip to AVI to hear the speakers you still dont know how they will sound in your own home.

Yes that is true. I thought he would have heard the ARS9s first to see if heliked the sound or at least heard them somewhere else, there are a few dealers or owners that will let you hear them. 

Whereabouts are you John?

 

By the way you can return the ARS9s within a month, think the cost is around £20, if I decide to go that way thats what I will do as its much cheaper than driving to Gloucesershire and back.

 

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

Im in Nottingham M8.

It was the ADM40s the guy bought which had a custom finish so i think cost 4k which is too great a gambe to take without a home demo never mind even hearing the things.

Heres my speakers

https://sites.google.com/site/dikdolan/ipls3.JPG

Also use PMC

https://sites.google.com/site/ayupfromdik/files/ASpassion1.jpg?attredirects=0&d=1

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

john dolan wrote:

If i could have a home demo of the adm9s and they bettered my systemi would buy them but i cant so i havent.

The adm40 guy took the chance and didnt like what he heard so paid the price for it maybe the money involved is pocket change to him it isnt to me.

So much choice out there that will let you home dem why take a chance on something you cant hear first when the price is over 3k thats a big ask.

Even if you made the trip to AVI to hear the speakers you still dont know how they will sound in your own home.

If you joined the AVI/HDD internet forum i'm sure you would get many offers from members happy to demonstrate their own systems to you (including ADM40s).

Bound to be one that lives within a reasonable distance.

Can't be much worse than many hi-fi products that are - supposedly - available in the 'High Steet' but - in reality - are only stocked by a tiny number of dealers. (And even then, they are often only listed as a stockist but don't actually carry any of the items for demo.)

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

I did join it i got banned for saying PMC actives sounded better than the original ADM i heard.plus me and the mod have history id rather not go into as i dont want to be anti AVI.

I have half been thinking of trying some Audiosmile Kensai as i like the look of those and the price would also put them in the same ball park of the latest ADM so would be interested in hearing the latest AVI jobbies if theres a dealer near Nottingham id be interested.

I thought the PMC AML were much better than the original ADMs but the latest ones are said to be much improved.

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

I'm a really happy AVI owner. 

Im lucky I live half hour away, and being honest there's no way I'd have ordered the 40s without a thorough demo. 

 

The majority of people will be gobsmacked by them, but its  still a heck of a punt. 

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

Having a had a few demos at dealers none very successful, I think home demo is the way but not that easy to arrange and of course 2 trips needed to the dealer, thats going to cost as much if not more. 

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

Well the Audiosmile Kensai ive been thinking about let you buy them on your credit card build you the speakers and let you have them for 10 days and if your not happy with them you can return them for full refund and only pay the shipping costs but if you want to keep them you need do nothing.

Why dont AVI offer the same kind service im sure they would sell more speakers if they did.

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

If you can comfortably afford over £3K for a pair of speakers then you can afford to get to hear them.

(Assuming you haven't had to eat nothing but beans on toast for a year and sell the car to get the money!)

 

"We are currently awaiting the loading of our complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins for your comfort, refreshment and hygiene during the journey."

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

Are the Audio Kensai actives?

They do seem rather small at 150x250x200mm and seem to cost £2,000, the ADMs 9RSS are £1,400.

 

I think the nearest dealer to you is Birmingham.

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RE: Supposing you were to start again

john dolan wrote:

Well the Audiosmile Kensai ive been thinking about let you buy them on your credit card build you the speakers and let you have them for 10 days and if your not happy with them you can return them for full refund and only pay the shipping costs but if you want to keep them you need do nothing.

Why dont AVI offer the same kind service im sure they would sell more speakers if they did.

 

They do on the ADM9s, you have 1 month to return, but the ADM40s are custom built.

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