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visionary's picture
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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Remember as well, your existing cables are already run in Wink

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

I have an old denon cd/amp in my workshop. I bought a pair of JBL control1 and mounted them on the wall. I didn't have any speaker cable long enough so as a temporary solution I used 2.5mm twin and earth cable that my neighbour gave me. The sound is amazing and not only am I leaving it connected I am now considering connecting it to my marantz/dreamcatcher system in my lounge to see how it sounds Biggrin

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

I have owned cable talk 3 for c.18yrs.

Recently upgraded my system to Yam 2010, MA rx6av, Chord Odyssey 4 & 2. Have read for many hrs about upgrading cable. Some say won't make any difference some say it will. Some say don't use silver plated cables with MA use copper. Some have upgraded to Odyssey 4, 2 and said it improved the sound on many different set ups but it may need time to run in. Even some reputable advertisors on this site who own their own shop have recommended this cable with my set up. I thought what the hell I'll sell it on ebay if it's worse than cable talk 3.

I have wired up my front speakers bi-amped one with Odyssey 4 and the other has cable talk 3. Chord say 100 hrs to run in (from memory I think), mine has been on 1 hr.

Emile Sande cd - rewinding the cd back and forth as I listen to one speaker and then the other over identical parts of a track I can say the Odyssey sounds identical to the cheaper copper cable talk 3. To my ears Odyssey doesn't sound harsh with my MA front 6's, tone, voices, instruments etc sound identical on both cables imo so far.

Now when it has run in if Odyssey 4 doesn't sound better than the cheaper, much cheaper cable talk 3 I won't be very happy as I have just shelled out nigh on £300. Time will tell.

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Tommo2 wrote:

Now when it has run in if Odyssey 4 doesn't sound better than the cheaper, much cheaper cable talk 3 I won't be very happy as I have just shelled out nigh on £300. Time will tell.

It is for exactly this reason that I always work with cable that can be returned.....if there is no difference now, I would suspect that there may not be a big improvement with the passage of time.

Try a variety of music, as it can be easy to miss a subtle change......but remain very sceptical, as it's easy to think you hear a difference, as it saves having the bother of selling it on....get someone independent to verify what you hear.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Tommo2 wrote:

I have owned cable talk 3 for c.18yrs.

Recently upgraded my system to Yam 2010, MA rx6av, Chord Odyssey 4 & 2. Have read for many hrs about upgrading cable. Some say won't make any difference some say it will. Some say don't use silver plated cables with MA use copper. Some have upgraded to Odyssey 4, 2 and said it improved the sound on many different set ups but it may need time to run in. Even some reputable advertisors on this site who own their own shop have recommended this cable with my set up. I thought what the hell I'll sell it on ebay if it's worse than cable talk 3.

I have wired up my front speakers bi-amped one with Odyssey 4 and the other has cable talk 3. Chord say 100 hrs to run in (from memory I think), mine has been on 1 hr.

Emile Sande cd - rewinding the cd back and forth as I listen to one speaker and then the other over identical parts of a track I can say the Odyssey sounds identical to the cheaper copper cable talk 3. To my ears Odyssey doesn't sound harsh with my MA front 6's, tone, voices, instruments etc sound identical on both cables imo so far.

Now when it has run in if Odyssey 4 doesn't sound better than the cheaper, much cheaper cable talk 3 I won't be very happy as I have just shelled out nigh on £300. Time will tell.

Cables don't run in, so looks like you have your answer, take the new ones back.

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Send them back, 100 hour run-in is rubbish thats just to discourage folk from returning them. 

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

lindsayt wrote:

Copper was a lot cheaper in 2003 than it is today. http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/copper/all/

 

The price of silver has gone through the roof in the last 10 years. http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/silver/all/

 

Silver, followed by copper are the best substances known to man for conducting electricity. There have been no breakthroughs in the last 200 years in finding anything better than them for this purpose.

A slightly pedantic point, but silver and copper are the best conductors by volume. Aluminium is the best conductor by weight. One of the reasons it gets used for overhead high voltage power cables.

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Hi guys, I will bi amp the other speaker with the Odyssey and when 100hrs have run in I will take one of the cables off replace with the cable talk and compare, only 12 hrs so far. Will also swap both and compare.

Btw this link from Chord does say 100hrs whether we believe is another matter, in 88hrs time I will know (several months) and report back.

Scroll down to the bottom

http://www.chord.co.uk/help-and-information/speaker-cable-guide/

 

Burning-in

If cable direction is a much debated subject, cable burn in and the changes that occur as a cable is used is a very disputed subject. Whilst not being able to offer a totally coherent explanation for this, we do absolutely accept that changes in sound quality occur as a cable is used. Rather like direction, the degree to which sound quality changes varies from cable to cable. As a general rule though, most speaker cables need at least 100 hours use before all the improvements they will bring to the performance of the system can be properly experienced.

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Tommo2 wrote:

Hi guys, I will bi amp the other speaker with the Odyssey and when 100hrs have run in I will take one of the cables off replace with the cable talk and compare, only 12 hrs so far. Will also swap both and compare.

Btw this link from Chord does say 100hrs whether we believe is another matter, in 88hrs time I will know (several months) and report back.

Scroll down to the bottom

http://www.chord.co.uk/help-and-information/speaker-cable-guide/

 

Burning-in

If cable direction is a much debated subject, cable burn in and the changes that occur as a cable is used is a very disputed subject. Whilst not being able to offer a totally coherent explanation for this, we do absolutely accept that changes in sound quality occur as a cable is used. Rather like direction, the degree to which sound quality changes varies from cable to cable. As a general rule though, most speaker cables need at least 100 hours use before all the improvements they will bring to the performance of the system can be properly experienced.

Written by someone in marketing?  How about a link to a study, not from a cable seller, that justifies any of these claims?

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Speaker cables can't burn in. Common-sense should tell you that, even if your ears deceive. What electrical property exactly do you think is changing over time?

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

If burn in is true, my leccy bill should be getting cheaper by now. ROFL

 

AmigaNut

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

BigH wrote:

Send them back, 100 hour run-in is rubbish thats just to discourage folk from returning them. 

+1

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

Tommo2 wrote:

I have owned cable talk 3 for c.18yrs.

Recently upgraded my system to Yam 2010, MA rx6av, Chord Odyssey 4 & 2. Have read for many hrs about upgrading cable. Some say won't make any difference some say it will. Some say don't use silver plated cables with MA use copper. Some have upgraded to Odyssey 4, 2 and said it improved the sound on many different set ups but it may need time to run in. Even some reputable advertisors on this site who own their own shop have recommended this cable with my set up. I thought what the hell I'll sell it on ebay if it's worse than cable talk 3.

I have wired up my front speakers bi-amped one with Odyssey 4 and the other has cable talk 3. Chord say 100 hrs to run in (from memory I think), mine has been on 1 hr.

Emile Sande cd - rewinding the cd back and forth as I listen to one speaker and then the other over identical parts of a track I can say the Odyssey sounds identical to the cheaper copper cable talk 3. To my ears Odyssey doesn't sound harsh with my MA front 6's, tone, voices, instruments etc sound identical on both cables imo so far.

Now when it has run in if Odyssey 4 doesn't sound better than the cheaper, much cheaper cable talk 3 I won't be very happy as I have just shelled out nigh on £300. Time will tell.

 

Are you listening to one speaker at a time?  How the hell is that testing the cables no wonder they sound the same

You need to have them both wired up for starters then listen to the complete image - secondly if your speakers have metal inbetween the binding posts high freq and low freq that should be changed as well to the wire you are using. 

Thats should be the rule of thumb for all speaker cables whether twin and earth or Valhalla

The bits of included metal make speakers sound terrible, worse than terrible in fact and I am yet to hear different.  It normally affects the part of the speaker thats not wired into - i.e. wire into the tweeter the vocal will be metallic - wire into the low bidning posts and the treble is metallic.  It will also make a difference if you wire into the high freq posts or the low posts. 

 

Just making sure a you are testing properly and b getting the most from your money.

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

ellisdj wrote:

You need to have them both wired up for starters then listen to the complete image - secondly if your speakers have metal inbetween the binding posts high freq and low freq that should be changed as well to the wire you are using. 

Thats should be the rule of thumb for all speaker cables whether twin and earth or Valhalla

The bits of included metal make speakers sound terrible, worse than terrible in fact and I am yet to hear different.  It normally affects the part of the speaker thats not wired into - i.e. wire into the tweeter the vocal will be metallic - wire into the low bidning posts and the treble is metallic.  It will also make a difference if you wire into the high freq posts or the low posts. 

It is likely that the jumper plates supplied by the speaker manufacturer have a much greater cross sectional area than any cable used to replace them, and therefore will have less impact on the quality of the sound than the replacement cables. In either case, the difference in resistance in changing a 2 inch metal plate for a 3 inch length of wire will be in the milli-ohms and completely inaudible.

Yet another good example of the power of suggestion.

 

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RE: Speaker Cable - old vs new?

ellisdj wrote

"Are you listening to one speaker at a time?  How the hell is that testing the cables no wonder they sound the same"

.....................................................................................

No not exactly but I did initially have the L speaker biamped with cable talk and the R speaker with Odyssey 4 biamped.

From the listening position, equal distance from speakers I could not notice a difference in sound whilst listeneing to cd's.

I also listened to various short sections of cd tracks whilst positioned close to the L speaker and then quickly rewound the cd to the same section of track and listened whilst positioned closely to the R speaker. ( not scientific I know) Voices, instruments sounded identical imo.

Have since biamped both L & R speakers with Odyssey, only for a few hrs and then switched both cables back to cable talk, then back to Odyssey again and haven't really noticed any difference to the soundstage or tone quality but it is early days (if you believe in 100hrs burn in claim) so will evaluate at a later date.

I was mainly hoping for a sweeter treble on the centre speaker which is biwired, imo it also sounds no better than the cable talk so far. The shop I bought it from said it should sound sweeter as the cable was an upgrade over the cable talk by several levels/price points. 

Will burn it in lol,  for many more hrs before I make my final judgement.

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