Ah good, at least you accept that when someone says 'there's definitely a difference because I heard it' we can't take that at face value and it is 'more complicated than it first appears to be'.
Likewise, when someone who hasn't heard it, says there isn't a difference.
Yeah. Fwiw that's not me. My initial inclination would be they do, but I've never done back to back amp comparisons with my speakers, source and room. Reading some of the science that I linked to earlier (I'm sure no-one read it but it's useful to understand what's going on IMO before choosing kit one likes the sound of) is quite persuasive that the harbeth challenge must be right for properly designed amps driving speakers they can handle, at the same volume, before clipping. You'll note that this does not apply to tube amps and certain class A, which add detectable second order harmonics, which give the 'warmth' ('musicality') you like in your amplification.
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
A true SS Class A amp removes crossover distortion and doesn't have the "weakness" of valves.....though, before one dismisses valves, they are worth hearing.
VTL amps produce some of the most dynamic, natural sounds I have ever heard. Not all Valve amps are created equal.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
Native_bon, I know you say none of your work has been officially released but do you have links to anything you've produced? I'd be really interested to hear some
Off topic. Also. house rules.
No rules. If it sounds good to you it sounds Right!!.Transpor:t . Oppo BDP-105EU Blue ray player.DAC: Rega dac & Audio lab M-Dac. AMP; MARANTZ SR7007. POWER AMP: MARANTZ MM7005 .SPEAKER'S; Boston acoustics M340. (FLOOR STANDING) SYSTEM STAND:QUADRASPIRE. INTERCONNECT;CHORD CHAMELEON SLIVER PLUS. DIGITAL CABLE:Clearer Audio silver Optimus.
Computer: Yototech: 600T case: graphice GTX690 Graphics card. 32gb RAM. Processor: I7 3960X. Solid state drive. 500gb. Sata drive 2TB. blue ray drive. studio monitors: Yamaha SH80M Active speakers. Mixer: Presonus studiolive 16.0.2. Audio connection Firewire via presonus. Screen: Asus 27inch VG278H
Being off topic has never stopped me before! And unless there is obscenity there are no house rules problems. Please?
I wasn't talking about crossover distortion, nor dismiss valves. Read the article.
I missed it because it wasn't in blue.
No amps do not sound the same, even with tone controls.
The whole point of an amp is to amplify a signal, simple enough, but to do its job the amp must be able to control the speakers being used. Some amps do this better than others, even in the same price bracket. Even at 'fixed' levels the way an amp controls the driver in the speaker of choice will differ giving differnt harmonics hence a different sound.
An amp fully in control of its speakers will produce what the sound engineer intended to be heard, We all know that different parts of the driver produces different frequencies right?, hence an amp capable of getting a drive unit to produce the full frequency range presented to it will sound different to a less sophisticated amp. ambience, reverb, transients and all those hifi things.
Tone controls cannot make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. If a source provides a super hi res signal, but an amps cheap innards degrades this signal, and its control over the drive units in your speakers is lacking, you will never get it to sound like a well sorted amp. It'll never sound the same.
You can fiddle till your fiddle drops off, it won't, some amps are just better than others at amplifying.
I'd like to hear some of your music too.
PC > AVI Neutron Five 2.1
Sony NWZ-A847 64GB Walkman > Westone UM3x
Yeah, that seems to happen most (tho not all) times I post with my phone, annoying.
As it's such an informative piece...
Good link Ben, suprisingly all of that site was allowed in my ad-blocker, I must have visited it before.
Synology NAS + ATV2 > ADM9RS
Hmmmm, well, a way to test an amplifier is to compare it's input with it's output.
I'm not sure I'd want to do that with baked beans, though.
Yes. I think if it can drive the rated ohms of your speakers, and if distortion is below .1%, every amp sounds the same. This endless and expensive search for costly high-end amps is all manufacturers' hype (IMHO).
Sorry, but this line of thinking is related to psychosomatic illusion. If you're told something sounds better than something else, your brain will convince you it must be true. Amp manufacturers have won this game of illusion, along with your bank account. No offense ('s' not 'c').
No they don't!
If they measure the same, the should
No, it shows that your brain fills in when it expects something to taste (or sound) a certain way.
This may be partially true, but it's too simplistic (imo). Colour and taste are inextricably bound together.....probably going back to our ancestors, where being hardwired to avoid eating things of certain colours could save your life.
Using the right food colouring to make stuff look more appetizing, is very much based on known science.
And I'm pretty certain the purveyours of aircraft-grade steel-cased amps at aircraft-grade prices know something about the equivalent, inextricably linked science when it comes to sound
By the way, I do think amps sound different. I'm certain of it. But I do wonder about dm's interesting concept of them sounding the same with tone controls...on that I think it's a very big maybe.
FrOg, certainly a maybe yes. I have a Denon receiver in my bedroom system. Not much power. Has tone controls. Use the loudness facility and it sounds like a completely different amplifier. Powerful and fuller mids, I am pretty certain I could make it to be perceived as a Naim (example) with a little tweaking as long as its within the envelope of what it can do. All an illusion and at higher levels it will run out of puff. The problem will arise when I try to do the same with amplifiers that have high inherent distortion such as certain valve amplifiers or transistor ones with predominately thirds ... that hard, glassy sound. It would be difficult to replicate these. Similar with amplifiers that have (very) low damping factors. Speakers with high bass damping would have to be used in a blind test to even the field.
I think thats where the confusion and difference of opinions come from. There are a fair few factors determining how an amplifier speaker combination will sound but basically, I do believe that most well engineered amplifiers are comparable in sound as long as certain common factors are adhered to, as mentioned before and as long as they are used within their design parameters. A few watts in many cases, which is all most people use in every day listening.
I have noticed that there are a fair few of you from the 'dark side' on here at the moment ... must come over and give my Xmas wishes. Sent one to the little man but I think he still has the hump.
Have a great Xmas and a good New Year
Pretty ... and pretty proud of it
You may be able to come close to replicating a 'signiture sound' of a certain amp but if it won't be able replicate but it won't be able to get the seperation, detail and clean background of much higher quality amp is it just doesn't replicate the source well enough.. The whole point in high fidelity is to get the purest sound form the source and an amplifier with cheaper lower grade components, higher distortion and lesser shieded internals from electrostatic and other interferences is never going to sound as good as one that has been desined to prevent these issues.. Although I find with pretty much all high end class D amps they sound over anylitical and unforgiving on bad recordings.. Electrocompaniet design their amp free of a type of distortion (TIM) that gets rid of the cold anylitical sound and sounds cleaner and slightly warmer like a class A (which has zero crossover distortion) or a tube amp..
Electrocompaniet PI 2 | Naim ND5 XS | Chord Epic | ProAc Studio 115
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