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Proper Reviewing
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At last something to make AVI users feel inadequate.  :P :razz:" width="15" height="15" class="smiley-class smileysProcessed" />

 

http://www.knobfeel.co.uk/


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RE: Proper Reviewing

I don't know quite how to say this   :shifty: but I don't have a knob to feel   :O

 

 

 Electrocompaniet EMC 1 UP , Monarchy Audio DIP, Electrocompaniet ECD 1 dac , EC4.8 preamp , 2x AW180 monoblock power amps , PMC PB1i speakers . Thousands of Cd's .

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RE: Proper Reviewing

Electro wrote:

I don't know quite how to say this   :shifty: but I don't have a knob to feel   :O

 

 

Ah don't worry Electro, I've got 2!

Mac

Electrocompaniet EMC1UP, Sonos Connect, Accuphase E350, Harbeth SHL5 Siltech 25th anniversary 33i XLR, Auditorium 23 SC, HiFi Racks Podium Reference rack, matching LS stands.

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

Macspur wrote:

Electro wrote:

I don't know quite how to say this   :shifty: but I don't have a knob to feel   :O

 

 

Ah don't worry Electro, I've got 2!

Mac

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 Electrocompaniet EMC 1 UP , Monarchy Audio DIP, Electrocompaniet ECD 1 dac , EC4.8 preamp , 2x AW180 monoblock power amps , PMC PB1i speakers . Thousands of Cd's .

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

I've just the one, but it's a beauty and dominates the front........though a very small swivel has a very big effect.  :twisted:

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

All a bit subjective if you ask me...

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

John Duncan wrote:

All a bit subjective if you ask me...

Not in the least.......I did blind, double blind and ABX tests, as well as asking the Mrs Cno.....and they all confirmed my hypothesis....the knob is definitely on the bigger side of what is considered normal.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Proper Reviewing

Didn't think anybody fiddled with their knobs nowadays. Thought it was all about remote controls. 

 

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RE: Proper Reviewing

richardw42 wrote:

Didn't think anybody fiddled with their knobs nowadays. Thought it was all about remote controls. 

Sometimes it's just a case of admiring the aesthetics.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Proper Reviewing

I do have one but don't play with it. I use the volume up down keys on my M-DACs remote instead! However, Remote volume control does vary considerably from product to product. My Primare I21 had a lovely machined Aluminium volume knob that was mounted on a rotary pulse genrerator to control the volume digitally. It had a nice feel but the remote volume didn't work that well - difficult to pinpoint exactly why.

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RE: Proper Reviewing

busb wrote:

I do have one but don't play with it. I use the volume up down keys on my M-DACs remote instead! However, Remote volume control does vary considerably from product to product. My Primare I21 had a lovely machined Aluminium volume knob that was mounted on a rotary pulse genrerator to control the volume digitally. It had a nice feel but the remote volume didn't work that well - difficult to pinpoint exactly why.

My remote has 2 volume effects...too much, or too little.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

CnoEvil wrote:

busb wrote:

I do have one but don't play with it. I use the volume up down keys on my M-DACs remote instead! However, Remote volume control does vary considerably from product to product. My Primare I21 had a lovely machined Aluminium volume knob that was mounted on a rotary pulse genrerator to control the volume digitally. It had a nice feel but the remote volume didn't work that well - difficult to pinpoint exactly why.

My remote has 2 volume effects...too much, or too little.

Cno..what would you recommend as an alternative to the AMS remote? It's heavy as a brick and I can't select the proper volume I want when using the remote:mad:

Main system: Musical Fidelity AMS 35i / Focal 1028be / Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP / MIT AVt MA / Matrix 12 xlr cables

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

iceman16 wrote:

Cno..what would you recommend as an alternative to the AMS remote? It's heavy as a brick and I can't select the proper volume I want when using the remote:mad:

I use a Linn one, which has the same code for volume...so it's worth checking out if any remotes you have lying about would work.

Other than that, try to pick up a plastic MF one, either from ebay or from a dealer that might have one kicking about.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

The old hi-fi chestnut: Never mind the width, feel the quality.

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

plastic penguin wrote:

The old hi-fi chestnut: Never mind the width, feel the quality.

You have (old) Chestnuts with your Knob?  :O

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing RE: Proper Reviewing

CnoEvil wrote:

busb wrote:

I do have one but don't play with it. I use the volume up down keys on my M-DACs remote instead! However, Remote volume control does vary considerably from product to product. My Primare I21 had a lovely machined Aluminium volume knob that was mounted on a rotary pulse genrerator to control the volume digitally. It had a nice feel but the remote volume didn't work that well - difficult to pinpoint exactly why.

My remote has 2 volume effects...too much, or too little.

Designing either button operated or rotary volume controls is both an art & an engineering challenge. Many amplifier manufacturers such as Roksan, motor drive the main (dual log) front panel volume control. A friend's Moon I1 uses this method but you can hear the motor at low volumes which is not a huge issue but had a small red LED to give a visual clue to the volume

Some controls speed up the longer the buttons are pressed or sense how fast a knob is rotated giving more "feel" to the control. My Primare I21 had a continuously rotating volume knob on the front panel. These rotary pulse generators (often called rotary encoders) control the volume electronically. One advantage they have is near perfect volume balance at all bolume levels. Some people don't like the idea of volume being controlled by an IC in the signal path but you don't have the signal being routed from the PCB to the front panel's volume control & back to the PCB so is swings & roundabouts.

Most digitally controlled volume controls work in 1dB steps. Each step being the same ratio of loudness - so goes the theory - the bottom step being no volume & the next step some volume can be subjectively far larger than the rest. The ideal solution to digital volume control is to go for either 0.5dB steps throughout the whole range or just the bottom few steps. The speed that volume changes also needs thought when you have a large number of steps. If your volume control has 70 steps, you want to be able to use those steps - you don't want to get through just 40 steps before the volume is uncomfortably loud.

A designer did an amplifier for Peachtree (I think). The volume control was designed to use far more of its range than most - this meant that to go loud, you had to rotate it more than many are used to. One dealer refused to stock it because it was "under powered". It wasn't but just needed more twist! You try to sort out weak design point but some just don't get it (Primare imaginatively placed the mains On/Off switch underneath the front panel where it could be easily accessed rather than on the rear where it often isn't so easy to use but some customers complained so they reverted to putting back on the rear like mine - to my disgust).

Getting volume absolutely right seems so simple but it isn't. Most amplifiers have too much gain compensated by too much attenuation. One solution is to have stepped gain in the power section that can be coupled to the inputs so any input has fine control of volume over its entire range but still goes as loud as desired.

 

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