Due to the small drive and cabinet size, ATC SCM7 is not giving me enough amount of bass.
So it's the amount of bass,overall "larger sound" and scale I am expecting from the 19, not extension.
With bookshelf speakers, one can not ask too much for extension.
Also, listed spec is for reference only. For example, Proac D2 claims its bass going down to 30hz .
As for Dynaudio C1, it is possibly one of the most expensive bookshelf today. In China, the latest C1 mk2 costs 5k pounds, that' 2.5 times of ATC 19. So I guess they don't belong to the same calibre , but C1 is also my target, in the near future that is.
Speakers:Spendor SP1/2R2,Sonus Faber Minima Vintage，ATC SCM19，ELAC 203.2, Monitor Audio S2
Amps:Accuphase C-2420, Accuphase A-35,Primare A32,Rotel 1062,NAD 355BEE,Onkyo tx809
Sources:Marantz SA11-S2 , ROTEL 1072,OPPO 93
Projector: Sanyo z2000
Subs: M&K Sub12,Elac 101.2
Room:4.5mx3m with diffusersX4 and bass tubesX4,dedicated
Thanks for your comments. Would you think otherwise if Accuphase A35 could actually do 50w x 2 class A? In the lab test results that came with the manual, it shows that A35 has a max output of over 60w at 8ohm,130w at 4 ohm and 160w at 2ohm, 20hz, both channel driven. It also states that that A35 can actually be considered as a 50w amp because the clipping point is set at 50w. My point is,for Accuphase, the printed data is very conservative.
Please Cno, your recommendations are highly appreciated but they are a little bit on the expensive side.
My budget is under 4k pounds.
How would you comment on MF m6prx power amp(260w x2)?
They are assembled in Taiwan/China and can be bought for 2.2k brand new.
What do you think of m6prx's capability of driving low-sensitive, low impedence speakers to their full potential (ATC, Dynanudio etc)?
Friends tell me m6prx is powerful but less "expensive" sounding (In Chinese, that means less refined sounding). Your view?
There's a lot of misunderstanding about Watts and amps. A 30 Watt amp will go loud enough to make your ears bleed in an average room and with average speakers. It's not Wattage that's important it's clean current delivery.
I'd agree with this ONLY if the 30w amp has a lot of dynamic headroom. If 30w is all it can put out full stop, then it's not nearly enough for a lot of speakers at an average listening distance - unless you actually want lots of clipped peaks and damaged speakers. Remember, clean undistorted volume doesn't actually seem that loud - distortion seems loud. A clipping amp sounds loud. Read the Distortion segment of THIS.
A good example of a dynamic 'low powered' amp would be Cno's, it can put out waaay more than 35w for short bursts.
From memory, the SCM19s have a fairly flat impedance curve that only dips to around 5 ohms so don't need loads of current, but they are inefficient so lots of dynamic headroom will be needed if you want to make the most of their excellent dynamics.
THIS article explains it well.
Yes, correct, clean power is very important, as is the need to produce clean peaks. But my point was (and I'm sure you understand this, though many people generally don't) is that you don't need a lot of power to go very loud. It's how well that powr is delivered. A speaker with a sensitivity of eg 88db means one Watt will produce 88db one meter away (usually a 1kHz tone), and 88db is quite loud itself..
Main system: Mac Mini 2011 > HRT II+ DAC • Cyrus 2 & PSX • Cyrus tuner • MS 10i speakers [on loan]
Also cluttering-up the place: Thorens TD160 (no cart) • Marantz CD 63 mkII KI & PM66 KI • Technics SL-P777 • Nakamichi DR-1
My prediction - without really knowing but hopefully an educated one - is that the A35 has enough power to drive the SCM19s. But as others have said, so much of this is dependent on listening volume. As always there is a loudness point where a system stops sounding good and you'll have to hear whether the volume you want is below that. But surely this setup ought to sound good?!?
Another factor is your preamp. I know nothing about the C-2420 but so much of what makes for a great preamp is a high-current output, which enables the power amp to work more efficiently. I am assuming based on Accuphase's reputation and the fact that the two amps should mate well, that this is the case. Class A watts are like dog's years and given that you have a nice preamp, I think you should be fine.
I do think the SCM19s are a poor choice, generally, for your amp given their low efficiency. They are hyper-accurate but their lowish efficiency may not give the dynamics that a SS class A amp is capable of going into a higher efficiency speaker. Though 85 db isn't that bad for a smallish speaker.
If your goal is to drive those speakers to their potential, and you have access to the domestic Chinese hifi market, then I have to ask: Why would you not buy a monster power amp from the best Chinese companies? What is the mainland price of, say, two top of the line JA-100 Jungson monoblocks? I am pretty sure you could buy these locally for less than $1000 USD. It's different for us, since we have to pay shipping, customs duty, etc. which doubles the cost, and then we've got a gray market product that nobody can support or repair. But if I lived in China and was operating in that ecosystem...much as I love British (and American, Danish, and Italian) hifi stuff, the fact remains that I'd have to spend 12x that amount of money get something that good from a British company. Just saying.
Living Room: Mac Mini, Oppo BDP95EU disc player, Benchmark DAC1, Balanced Audio Technology VK-50 SE preamp, McIntosh MC150 power amp, DIY 22 litre standmounts based on Scan-Speak 18W/8542, DIY subwoofer based on 15" Dayton Reference HF and a Hypex DS4.0 amp.
Office: A bunch of computers, Cambridge DACMagic, Naim Nait 5, DIY 11L standmounts based on Scan-Speak 15W/8530K00
On hand, testing, or selling: Pathos Logos, ProAc Response D18, B&W PV1D subwoofer, Tripath 2020-based 'Class T' amp, Single-driver speakers based on Fostex FE103EN, PMC DB1i, Boston A25
Recently sold: KEF Q300 speakers, AudioEngine D1 DAC, Mini TL speakers based on Seas W15LY001
Here is my opinion, which is really just my best guess.
- The M6 PRX is good, but I don't think you will be happy with it after the Accuphase (I think your friends are right).
- If the A-35 can deliver the power in the lab tests, it will be fine....though I would be suprised if it can achieve this in full Class A. I believe a rule of thumb is that you will get 1 deg heat for each Watt produced (50 Deg C?). Nb. The MF AMS 50 costs £8900, weighs 60kg, and gives 50W into 8 Ohms.
- The sound to which you have now become accustomed, will not be easy to achieve outside Class A / Valves, or some very carefully chosen AB amps.
- Your choice of speaker will not hide any Solid State "hardness", unlike Sonus Faber for example. So particular care needs to be taken.
- Some of the brands I've listed do worthy amps at a more sensible price.
- It may be academic, so wait until you hear the result, and if needed, I'm sure we'll be able to come up with more wallet friendly suggestions.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
Thanks for the suggestions Spurs.
I like to have a taste of everything within my reach. The quest of searching for the best HIFI system(if there ever will be one) should last for a life time. At least that's what I hope for.
I completely get your point about the Chinese HIFI products. But you see, why would one go back to a GOLF GTI after driving 3.0t BMW for years?
No offence to the GOLF owners, GOLF in highly respected here and worldwide . That was just a example.
Meanwhile, enjoy your DIY/Homebuilt hobby. Maybe one day, I will get into DIY as well.
Cno, I tried to attach and show you a photo of the performance graph but failed.
Any way, another safe choice is buying one more A35 and play in bridged mode.
A35 becomes a 120w 8ohm,240w 4ohm monoblock when turned (x4 the normal output) .
WOW, I really can't imagine what that will be like. >) >)
I see from your sig you've got the SCM19's... how are you getting on with them? are you happy with the results, or are you still looking to change amplification?
Accuphase E350 amp, Electrocompaniet EMC1UP CDP, Siltech 25th Classic anniversary 330I XLR Harbeth Super HL5 on Sound Anchor Quod ELS63 stands, Chord Odessey2 speaker cable. Grado SR60 headphones.
Please see my new post regarding the subject.
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