Perreaux amps
Hi,
Well, the Electrocompaniet amp and CDP turned up yesterday, along with the Perreaux, so thought I'd report my thoughts so far.
Firstly, the Perreaux Eloquence 150I is definitely not for me. Compared to the IA-4 it's sounds thin and digital... can't fault it for build quality, detail and resolution, but no soul. In terms of user interfase and functionality, it's second to none, but as far as I'm concerned, that's not what I buy an amp for.
The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii
was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.
Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.
I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.
As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but
it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.
Cheers
Mac
I thought you would like the EMC1up it's quite special isn't it 
The ECI5 mk2 takes quite a while to fully warm up and sound it's best from stone cold and the last thing to appear is that effortless sense of space and inner detail so it may improve with more time over the weekend .
If you remember I said that some Electrocompaniet fans prefer the original ECI5 well to be honest that includes me but I did not want to put you off the MK2 before you had a chance to hear it for yourself especially as it was available at such a good price. The ECI5 mk2 has lost a little of the magic that it's predecessors had but it is still a very good amp !
If the MK2 does not suit your taste then it may be worth trying the Original ECI5 (second hand ) or even the amazing little ECI3 that has remained in it's original form and is still available new . Both of these are are closer to the Sugden sound but with more drive and dynamic headroom .
It is a little puzzling that Electrocompaniet still list the original ECI5 as available alongside the mk2 version on their website so it might be available .
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/integrated/
Just looking at the specs of the Original and the MK2 I have noticed what I think may be the main difference , the power consumption with no load or signal on the original ECI5 spec is 160w but on the MK2 it is only 100w , this suggests to me that the original ECI5 is more biased into class A hence the difference in sound quality
Good listening , Electro.
Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.
BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....
yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed
Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.
BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....
yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed
I suppose it comes down to Carbon Footprint vs Sound Quality.....Mac is trying to sort both. 
The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.
Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.
I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.
As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but
it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.
Cheers
Mac
All interesting stuff.
I suggest you never listen to the 35i, as it takes everything you like about the Sugden and improves upon it (except the power consumption).....it will never leave your home. >) I really liked the Electro CDP when I heard it...so it will be a great shoot out with the Sugden CDP.
Cno, you really are a bad influence
At this rate MF will be paying you commission.
Cheers
Mac
Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.
BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....
Alex,
As much as I'd like to hear the AMS, I think with the size of my listening room, the base might be a bit too much.
Cheers
Mac
Mac, don't listen to the AMS...trust me 
Got to ear this morning the Perreaux amp, the 250 full optional with DAC and phonostage built in.
It is indeed an amazing amp. Very very musical, not at all analytical but very detailed. Not as warm as the AMS but not too far. If matched with good speakers it can be a magic amp. We connected it to some speakers the guy produces itself, 8 Ohm at 92dB (He said his speakers are almost electrostatic speakers) sat down and got very impressed. Huge soundstage...an unbelievable level of details (so detailed it could seem bright sounding but not at all) and great dynamics also.
Frankly speaking...I would rate the Perreaux 250 at the same level of the AMS...way better than the Sudgen. Plenty of power...he could drive those huge 4 ways speakers easily...always in control also at a super-loud level (even if the volume was absolutely loud it was still a pleasure to listen)....
Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.
BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....
yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed
I suppose it comes down to Carbon Footprint vs Sound Quality.....Mac is trying to sort both.
Perreaux could be a great compromise of both...pity NZ is so far...if something goes wrong it will take quite some money to ship it there and back. And the Perreaux is indeed full of electronics onboard
Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.
BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....
yeah, that sounds very discouraging, indeed
I suppose it comes down to Carbon Footprint vs Sound Quality.....Mac is trying to sort both.
Perreaux could be a great compromise of both...pity NZ is so far...if something goes wrong it will take quite some money to ship it there and back. And the Perreaux is indeed full of electronics onboard
I comletly agree I didn't epect it but it was haevenly good. An haeve to be said Service there by Koen Veassen was super it was almost like home 
(maybe the service is an Antwerp thing).
So to compleet this I would seriously consider the 250 If ther was not the problem of the expensive shipment. It's a detail to take in consideration because let's be honest it doesn't come cheap.
Exept that it would have been a real hard choice to pick between the AMS an the 250
But the sound was so good an acurate, we both kind of completly forget this little point.
Plenty of bass but always in control an never overwelming an it stay's airy an extreemly detailed an transparant but I never had this weerd space sound you can get with extreemly detailed amps.
One thing it is not really forgiving bad recording I think the ams is slightly more forgiving on that point.
But than it's is still more forgiving tan the M6 500i who is a real nightmare for bad recordings...
Mac, don't listen to the AMS...trust me
Got to ear this morning the Perreaux amp, the 250 full optional with DAC and phonostage built in.
It is indeed an amazing amp. Very very musical, not at all analytical but very detailed. Not as warm as the AMS but not too far. If matched with good speakers it can be a magic amp. We connected it to some speakers the guy produces itself, 8 Ohm at 92dB (He said his speakers are almost electrostatic speakers) sat down and got very impressed. Huge soundstage...an unbelievable level of details (so detailed it could seem bright sounding but not at all) and great dynamics also.
Frankly speaking...I would rate the Perreaux 250 at the same level of the AMS...way better than the Sudgen. Plenty of power...he could drive those huge 4 ways speakers easily...always in control also at a super-loud level (even if the volume was absolutely loud it was still a pleasure to listen)....
Don't worry, I probably won't get to hear the AMS.
It just goes to show how subjective this hobby is and how important system matching is. For me, in my set up, the Perreaux was just that, analytical, lacking the real emotion of the Sugden.
I've made up my mind, if I'm to say goodbye to my IA-4, it will be an Electrocompaniet, but not sure in which guise, intergrated, or perhaps a pre-power combo, but that will have to wait for a while now, if I'm to buy the CDP first.
Cheers
Mac
Hi,
Well, the Electrocompaniet amp and CDP turned up yesterday, along with the Perreaux, so thought I'd report my thoughts so far.
Firstly, the Perreaux Eloquence 150I is definitely not for me. Compared to the IA-4 it's sounds thin and digital... can't fault it for build quality, detail and resolution, but no soul. In terms of user interfase and functionality, it's second to none, but as far as I'm concerned, that's not what I buy an amp for.
The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii
was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.
Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.
I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.
As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but
it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.
Cheers
Mac
I thought you would like the EMC1up it's quite special isn't it
The ECI5 mk2 takes quite a while to fully warm up and sound it's best from stone cold and the last thing to appear is that effortless sense of space and inner detail so it may improve with more time over the weekend .
If you remember I said that some Electrocompaniet fans prefer the original ECI5 well to be honest that includes me but I did not want to put you off the MK2 before you had a chance to hear it for yourself especially as it was available at such a good price. The ECI5 mk2 has lost a little of the magic that it's predecessors had but it is still a very good amp !
If the MK2 does not suit your taste then it may be worth trying the Original ECI5 (second hand ) or even the amazing little ECI3 that has remained in it's original form and is still available new . Both of these are are closer to the Sugden sound but with more drive and dynamic headroom .
It is a little puzzling that Electrocompaniet still list the original ECI5 as available alongside the mk2 version on their website so it might be available .
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/integrated/
Just looking at the specs of the Original and the MK2 I have noticed what I think may be the main difference , the power consumption with no load or signal on the original ECI5 spec is 160w but on the MK2 it is only 100w , this suggests to me that the original ECI5 is more biased into class A hence the difference in sound quality
Good listening , Electro.
Hi Electro,
I've struck a provisional deal with the dealer, just want to check the Sugden player out first, but I will be shocked if it betters the EMC1UP.
I've been using the amp quite a bit over the weekend and it really is a close run thing... the Sugden just has that bit more definition, but I could live with the MKii... I think Cno may have sent me a link for a Company selling an ex demo ECI-5, will double check.
However, for now I'm happy to have probably found the CDP to live with for a good few years, and may well even leave the amp for a while and in time might even try the pre/power combo.
Thanks to Cno for suggesting and to you for encouraging me to try Electrocompaniet.
Cheers
Mac
Hi Electro,
I've struck a provisional deal with the dealer, just want to check the Sugden player out first, but I will be shocked if it betters the EMC1UP.
I've been using the amp quite a bit over the weekend and it really is a close run thing... the Sugden just has that bit more definition, but I could live with the MKii... I think Cno may have sent me a link for a Company selling an ex demo ECI-5, will double check.
Thanks to Cno for suggesting and to you for encouraging me to try Electrocompaniet.
Cheers
Mac
Here is the link again: http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:mode=product&product=10684128
This is a very tempting offer - and if you had to shift it on, would cost very little.
I would also echo Electro's comment about the components taking a good while to properly warm up and sound right.
If there is anything I can help with, just ask.
Cno
Here is the link again: http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:mode=product&product=10684128 This is a very tempting offer - and if you had to shift it on, would cost very little. I would also echo Electro's comment about the components taking a good while to properly warm up and sound right. If there is anything I can help with, just ask. Cno
Must admit, I have been looking at that one. I have fancied demoing electrocompaniet for some time, and there is no where near me that stocks it. I keep nearly buying this amp to allow an extended home demo, with a view to selling on if I don't fall in love!
Hi Electro,
I've struck a provisional deal with the dealer, just want to check the Sugden player out first, but I will be shocked if it betters the EMC1UP.
I've been using the amp quite a bit over the weekend and it really is a close run thing... the Sugden just has that bit more definition, but I could live with the MKii... I think Cno may have sent me a link for a Company selling an ex demo ECI-5, will double check.
Thanks to Cno for suggesting and to you for encouraging me to try Electrocompaniet.
Cheers
Mac
Here is the link again: http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:mode=product&product=10684128 This is a very tempting offer - and if you had to shift it on, would cost very little. I would also echo Electro's comment about the components taking a good while to properly warm up and sound right. If there is anything I can help with, just ask. Cno
Must admit never heard any EC product...maybe it's time to catch up!
Must admit never heard any EC product...maybe it's time to catch up!
Youve just bought an amazing amp, don't go buying my extended demo lol
The EMC1UP would be an obvious choice for you to look at tho if you are demoing cd players tho. Shame it doesn't have digital inputs (as far as I can see anywhere) so you would need a separate dac for streaming duties.
Must admit never heard any EC product...maybe it's time to catch up!
Youve just bought an amazing amp, don't go buying my extended demo lol
The EMC1UP would be an obvious choice for you to look at tho if you are demoing cd players tho. Shame it doesn't have digital inputs (as far as I can see anywhere) so you would need a separate dac for streaming duties.
Ahaha, do not worry now is just for the pleasure. Amp chapter is closed at least for next 4/5 years 
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The Electrocompaniet EC1-5 MKii was much more like it... the closest sounding solid state to class A I've heard so far. However, the Sugden beats it on detail and resolution.
Finally, the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP... I think I've found my replacement CDP for the CDX2. This machine has a much bigger beefier SQ and opens up the midrange giving a much more spacious feeling, with clear crisp treble, without ever sounding harsh.
I would still like to hear the new Sugden CDP before making any final decision on the EMC1UP.
As for the amps, I'll play around with them for a few more days,but
it's like Cno said before, it's very hard to change from Class A once you've tried it.
Cheers
Mac
All interesting stuff.
I suggest you never listen to the 35i, as it takes everything you like about the Sugden and improves upon it (except the power consumption).....it will never leave your home. >) I really liked the Electro CDP when I heard it...so it will be a great shoot out with the Sugden CDP.
Cno, you really are a bad influence
At this rate MF will be paying you commision.
Cheers
Mac
Mac, I highly advise you also NOT to try the AMS35i if you liked and owned the Sudgen. As Cno says, it takes whatever the Sudgen does best to another level. Also adds something like huge and powerful basses and stunning dynamics.
BUT it runs very hot and consumption is a constant 400W....