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plastic penguin's picture
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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

stevebrock wrote:

PP

I see where your coming from but there's not competition around the price of the ST40, I listened, I loved, I bought........ End of story Smile Bear in mind I am still hugely disappointed with the Elicit saga and to be honest couldn't stomach any more demos.

btw I failed to disclose after the 4th Elicit went back I demoed a creek destiny 2 and Primare both nice amps but to my ears falling short to the ST40

I know about the Creek Destiny and the Primare, from memory, you spoke about.

Good luck to ya, Steve. Genuinely pleased you like the amp so much. Now just concentrate on the forthcoming baby.

Amp; CDP; Turntable; Tuner; Speakers

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

CJSF wrote:

That said, quality is my concern, I bought Croft, a true British product? . . . where did the components come from? I use PMC speakers, certainly the ones I have were 'made in Luton', again, where did the components come from? I now use an Icon amp, made in China, designed and finished in the UK . . . so it goes on. We are tied to China, is there a way out?

CJSF

In a nutshell, No!!. We started it back in 1997 when we gave back Hong Kong and the Portugese gave back Macau. Nothing wrong in that as far as it goes but in the rush to buy cheap and maximise profits we made one mistake. We let the infrastructure go that we had here. Businesses come and go but without the infrastructure and skills, they're gone for good.

Now, as Chinese wages rise from the initial bowl of soup and a fish head per week to real world amounts, plus the ever increasing shipping costs, plus the duty payable at the docks when the stuff arrives, tot that little lot up and in the next couple of years or so we could be looking at parity with having it all done here. It's a sad fact but it's true. But we can't do it here can we?. No infrastructure. To rebuild that would cost an arm and a leg.

Whether we like it or not CJSF, we're stuck with it.

EDIT: Just remembered another thread on here from not so long ago. Some people on here just don't give a Hoot where it's made so there you have it my friend.

 

 

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

As you say Richard, no one gives a hoot, 'cheap' is the buy-word!!!. . . . I cast my mind back '50 years' . . . one has watched manufacturing give over to paper shuffling. The town I lived in had a healthy industrial section, the factories have been systematically knocked down and replaced with glass office type buildings, cant see it going back the other way?

Its a sad state we are in, importing more and more, exporting less and less :? We are being sold fairy tails . . . I'm old enough not to care, feel sorry for the young'ns, when they are approaching my age, they will still be expected to work, trouble is no one will want to employ them, frightening. Watch out, I could not do a full days work now . . .

The writing is on the wall, no one is taking any notice . . . :wall:

CJSF

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

Being in the piano industry I am all too aware of these geographical and manufacturing issues.  We once had a thriving piano building industry in this country and names like Challen, Broadwood, Chappell, Rogers, Collard & Collard, Hopkinson, Kemble, Knight, Danemann etc. were producing large quantities of instruments and finding buyers for them.  Now we have virtually nothing, especially since Yamaha closed their Milton Keynes factory in 2009 and moved production of Kemble and Yamaha P-series pianos to their factory in Jakarta.  All these names are now either gone completely or are simply transfer names used for pianos built in the Far East.  The most painful twist is that many of these instruments are heavily based on old British frame designs....  With manufacturing costs increasing every year in China we are approaching a point where building in the UK could possibly be in prospect again, if only we had kept the skills and infrastructure alive on any sort of scale.  We never competed with the German makers on all-out quality, but we made some very good pianos nevertheless and it is sad that getting back to the point would now be virtually impossible.

On the flip side, as a consumer, there is no way I could have bought a British made amplifier at the same price range that would come anywhere near the Exposure 1010, which is made at the company's factory in Malaysia.  Being very familiar with both amplifiers I have to say the Exposure is in a different league to the still good Rega Brio-R, which is the shining example of what British manufacture can achieve at reasonable price points.  Like most here, and as mentioned by CJSF, I am on a tight budget and I have to get the best I can for the money.  However, my turntable and CD player were both made in Britain, and my speakers were made in Denmark so I am doing my bit to support British and European industry and I don't feel too guilty about the Malaysian made amp.

Rega RP3/Elys 2 - Graham Slee Gram Amp 1 - Rega Apollo R - Exposure 1010 amp - Dynaudio DM2/6 - Chord Co. Chameleon VEE3/Rumour 2 - Musical Fidelity V90-HPA - Sennheiser HD595

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

It sounds like you gave up already CJSF.

Keep thinking that way along with millions of other people and the day will come when workers in China will continute not being able to afford the very products that they make themsleves.

But most importantly for you and for your family is that you also will not be able to afford the things they make in China, no matter how cheap these products are, because you won't have a job. 

If you think manufacturing jobs should go where labour is the cheapest then this will happen and the U.K. along with the rest of the West will become Second and even Third World economies and countries. 

Think education and service jobs will save everyone in the West? China, India and others are investing just as much or more than Western countries are into Education. 

If too many manufacturing and service jobs go to low wage countries then your wages will also have to go down. It will be the only way for you to compete in the world as a worker in the U.K.. Plain and simple.

What are you going to buy with your two pounds an hour job?

It's all just an economic Race to the Bottom! 

Buy your audio gear from First World countries and support your economy and your way of life. 

Support Democracies, Freedom and Liberty, Environmental protection and Workers Rights. 

In most of these categories many low wage countries are lacking. 

 

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

Happy_Listner wrote:

It sounds like you gave up already CJSF.

Keep thinking that way along with millions of other people and the day will come when workers in China will continute not being able to afford the very products that they make themsleves.

But most importantly for you and for your family is that you also will not be able to afford the things they make in China, no matter how cheap these products are, because you won't have a job. 

If you think manufacturing jobs should go where labour is the cheapest then this will happen and the U.K. along with the rest of the West will become Second and even Third World economies and countries. 

Think education and service jobs will save everyone in the West? China, India and others are investing just as much or more than Western countries are into Education. 

If too many manufacturing and service jobs go to low wage countries then your wages will also have to go down. It will be the only way for you to compete in the world as a worker in the U.K.. Plain and simple.

What are you going to buy with your two pounds an hour job?

It's all just an economic Race to the Bottom! 

Buy your audio gear from First World countries and support your economy and your way of life. 

Support Democracies, Freedom and Liberty, Environmental protection and Workers Rights. 

In most of these categories many low wage countries are lacking. 

 

 

 

 

Yep, I have given up, I dont have a family (that I recognise . . . or perhaps that they dont want to recognise me?) Retired, so dont have a job to worry about. Yeh, I certainly have nothing to worry about personally.

However, new 'English' doctors and nurses cant find jobs, graduates cant find a job . . . people wont work becaus they get to much off the state . . . others wont work because the job offered is below them . . . you know it dont stop there . . . Take you pick, why should I care. Britain is on the way down, on the skids at a rate knots!!!

As I say, we are being sold a fairy tail . . . lied to and we take it . . . 'Writing on the wall', there are some serious repercussions not far round the corner? In the mean time we can fiddle while Rome burns?

CJSF

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

CJSF,

I can understand your postition and agree with most of you wrote in your last post.

I am still going to do what I can, no matter how small of an impact it is, knowing that I fought the good fight. 

Cheers  :cheers:

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

I've not demoed Pathos amps. Thought about it but never got around to it.

Icon Audio Stereo 40 with my Quad 21L2 speakers is the best combo of amps/speakers I have heard to date.

I can't remember why I started this topic – I think I read Pathos mentioned in another one about Icon Audio and wondered what other's experience was.

I think my quest is over. Icon Audio Stereo 40 it is then!

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

Yeeehaaaa

The beast has arrived!

 

Michell Gyrodec, RB303, Benz Micro Ace H, Icon Audio ST40 w/KT88s, PS1 Phono, Kudos X2, Rega Apollo R, DAC

 

 

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

stevebrock wrote:

Yeeehaaaa

The beast has arrived!

 

Already, I thought there is some 8-9 months latency period.

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RE: Pathos vs Icon Audio

stevebrock wrote:

Yeeehaaaa

The beast has arrived!

 

 

 

Patience Steve , patience . . . you have to burn the valves in, sounds frustrating, it is!!! But as they start to bed down and you become aware of changes, a smile comes to the face, I kept a log for the first 30 hours, as I noticed a change I noted it and the hours . . . Dont bother these days when (and if these days?) I put new valves in, its just nice to hear them mature. Smile

I think the instructions say check the bias 2-3 times a year . . . I do mine every couple of weeks, a bit of a fetish with me I'm afraid, I can hear the tiny differences when a valve is off a lot. As you get used to the amp, you will be able to hear when the bias is off a tad, its never normaly wildly out and still with in '60-70 black bar' spec, three are often OK, one might be a few points off. I run mine at about '62/3', go higher, say '68/9' and the sound changes very slightly, get a tad brighter. Plus in my opinion, to close to 70 and there is no buffer.

I did go through a phase of adjusting the bias to the valve type and sound . . . madness, 62/3 works fine for me.

Dont get to taken up with it all Steve, simply relax and enjoy the wonderful sound of valves . . . :cheers:

CJSF

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