New amplifier: my long journey...

Hi Cno.. How does one get to know such measurements. I am seeing the Harman Kardon HK990 Manual and it says 1000W Power consumption. Does it mean anything?

I believe that the HK990 has a standing current (on idle) of 180W, which shows it is biassed in Class A for the first few Watts. The 1000W must be it flat out.....which is like the power usage of 2 x 60" plasmas.

In comparison, the 500W MF (M6500i) has a max of 2000W (150W on idle), and the AMS 100 uses 1200W all the time.

So what it tells you is that it is powerful and can generate good power into dropping impedance, and is expensive to run, if you play it loud into speakers with a difficult load.

180W on idle? Yeah.. I was reading on a review saying that firsr few watts are Class A. I am quite impressed by all the things that it can do so just ordered one to experience it first hand!

BTW, when you mentioned the M6500i, I went to MF website to see and it looks like there is a new M8 series and the M8pre weight 17kgs  I wonder what would a pre so heavy 

I digress.. again.

Yup, for what it can do, and the power it can deliver, it has to be unbeatable VFM.

Power consumption and power output are not directly related.  An amp that burns 1000W would make a good central heating system as that's the same as a one bar electric fire.  You would need to keep it well ventilated!  Class A amps burn much more power than Class B amps.  I looked up the Marantz PM 6004 and that burns 150W, the same as a big light bulb.

Chris

You may be right, but in the SS amps I'm familiar with, the ones that have high power consumption are often able to double their output as impedance halves eg. 35i and HK 990, so if you combine them with a speaker with low impedance, they sound very powerful. My 35W amp sounds louder than it has any right to.

I miss this thread. Any news?

Myself, I got me a pair of Jadis JA30 mono's that I love! Listening to great music every free time I get. I am still looking around for the perfect speakers for me. Currently, I am using my Dynaudio Focus 160 and even though they don't have the "fastest" or most articulate bass around, especially with a low powered tube amp, the overall sound is so good it is hard to miss anything at all! I might try out Totem and Harbeth this weekend, will be very interesting as I have never heard those brands.

Hi Ben, you might want to put Audio Note speakers on your radar.

BTW. Congratulations on your amp.

It's certainly time that "Bill and Ted" had another excellent adventure.

Yer, I miss the deadly duo too... most interesting threads by far!

Ben, Harbeths, a great match for tubes... not sure about Totems though.

Let us know your findings.

Mac

Yesterday me and my girlfriend went out for a walk, we were heading towards a hifi store that is located on the other side of the city where we live. I had never visited them before, but I could tell right away this was one of the those really serious hifi stores, that makes you feel good all of the time during the visit, and while we had to wait for the listening room to be ready we had nice chats with the owner and the guy who was going to help us out later on. They were especially glad that I happen to have a girlfriend that is interested in this aswell, even though she don't care at all about technical specs, reading magazines or anything like that, but she has a good ear and is very honest about what she likes. Anyway, I had made an arrangement with them that I wanted to hear three different speakers:

Harbeth ps3er

Totem Model-1 Signature

Totem Arro

The first two speaker are small monitors and the third is a very small floor stander. The goal for me is to find a speaker that plays with less deep bass than my current Dynaudio Focus 160, without losing in warmth and this really involving not bright yet enough detalied sound that I love so much. I happen to have a room that creates a boomy low bass no matter what amplifier I use, which actually can be pretty nice in some extent, but I have too much of it. Bass traps and things like that just won't happen. Eq:ing down the lowest bass works but I don't want to do that. At home I am using a class A tube amplfier with an output of 30 watts per channel with a tube pre amplifier (Jadis JA30 + Jadis JP15). I think this is some piece of equipment I would never get rid off in my life. I might use something else at some time, but I will always keep these, I am pretty sure of that. From morning until late at night, they create a sound that is so nice to listen to, with amazing separation, details and vocals just sound extremely real and close. I could go on but I won't.

Dynaudio, besides being known for being very hard to drive, are known for their big nice sound and very little brightness. And that I like a lot. So it will be really tough for any contender to outperform my current speakers. And I know I won't find speakers that are better just like that, it will take a lot of time and effort, especially as the looks are of very big importance aswell. Unfortunately, we didn't do the comparison with a tube amp but instead we where using an integrated from Roksan. This created a very different sound from what I am used to at home, but this listening session was about comparing these three speakers and the Roksan was a good tool for that. But I am well aware of that I would need to use my own amplifer (in my own room) to make a final decision. And I am actually glad I don't have an amp like this at home, it's it too sharp and analytical for me, I want to relax when I listen to music. And I can do that now, hearing even more details, but in smoother way. The listening room seemed to be very different from mine at home also, without any bass boom at all.

We were using three tracks from different cd's. "Hold on" by Tim O'Brien, a bluegrass/folk/country song with mostly acoustic instruments and male vocals. "Lovedust" by Luna, a well recorded pop/rock song with a couple of pretty rough electric guitars and some acoustic guitars aswell, mostly male vocals but some female aswell. "Political world" by Bob Dylan, with pretty punchy bass and an atmospheric sound from an album that I've been listening to for ages on every piece of music equipment I have ever owned that I can remember.

We started out with the Harbeth's. They were brand new and looked really nice, both me and my girlfriend were very impressed by this. Even though they are very small, they played with a decent low bass and I could clearly hear all of the bass notes, it was punchy, and the sound was full and nice to listen to aswell. Maybe a tiny bit boxed in sound but only very marginally and I'm not sure that's even the right words, but compared to what I hear at home, something was slightly different. The Harbeth's where very detailed, I could hear the instruments in the songs clearly and with very good stereo separatation too. Not as clearly as in my home but I suppose that's because of the difference in the amplifiers. The Harbeth's were not bright on any track. The vocals sounded very natural, very close but not overly so. We both liked these speakers, my girlfriend maye a little bit more than me.

I was very curious to hear the Totem Model-1's as I've read so much good about them lately. For instance, that they easily outperforms Dynaudio Focus. First I have to mention the size of these speakers, they are really tiny. Impressive when you start listening, because the bass is there, in my opinion, playing smooth yet punchy like the Harbeth's and the overall impression was that they where playing very neutral and filling the room with nice music very well, but the Dylan track could be a bit overly bright when playing loud, something I've never experience before on this track with equipment I have owned. At home, these speakers would probably sound very different, they are supposed to be hard to drive for any amplifier. The speakers are great but I couldn't not tell if they would be great in my home from this listening session.

Moving on to the floor standers, the Totem Arro, in shiny red! In the store, they told me that people actually bought these speakers without even listening to them. They look great and would suit many small room homes. With a 4,5 inch woofer, they are very slank. But also very unstable. On spikes, you can overturn them with a light push. Soundwise, they are floor standers after all and have a bigger internal size than the previous speakers. And you could tell right away, the bass was fuller sounding than what the Totem Model-1's we listened to some minutes earlier delivered. And overall, they actually performed very well compared to the first two speakers. The soundstage was very wide, playing with lots of deails and I didn't really miss anything, they didn't sound overly bright on any track either, just a joy to listen to. However, compared to the first speakers, the sound lacked the precision, the finest details, the clearness of especially the Model-1's. And from what I can remember, vocals maybe didn't come out in the same way either. But these are very minor complaints, I'm not even sure I remember that correctly. Very good speakers, for the size and money they cost! Too bad our two cats at home aren't insured for destroying speakers.

I will conclude this by saying I could not find a clear winner, I liked all of the speakers very much! And this was just a first step towards finding the perfect speakers. I don't know if I would like to listen to other speakers in other stores before taking some of these speakers home for a real test. I am interested in other speakers aswell, for instance the Dynaudio Excite X12 and Focus 110, as I already know I like the "house sound". Of the three speakers in the comparision, my girlfriend perfered the Harbeth's because they never sound bright and has a very nice finish, but she liked both of the Totem's aswell too. And the Arro's should be really easy to put in the home (with some glue or whatever) and enjoy for a long time, but I have a little itch telling me I would want something even better than that. Let's find out later if I bring the Harbeth's at home, and maybe one of the Totem's too. That would be very interesting. This was a great listening experience in one of the nicest hifi stores I've visitied. Hifi can be very fun, and it's not over. Thanks for reading!

Ben, it's great to get your insight.

When your ear gets used to Valves/Class A, it is very hard, if not impossible, to settle with anything else.

You are right to acknowledge that you cannot really judge a speaker until its tied to your amp. I mentioned  Audio Note above, which sound very like what you are looking for...and would also add Living Voice and JM Renaud.

These brands need a little more searching out, but your ownership of the Jadis proves you are well able to do this.

Cno

I have been looking around for Audio Note speakers since you first mentionen them quite long ago but none of the ordinary hifi stores here have them. I will keep my eyes and eventually ears open!

Here are their dealerships: http://www.audionote.co.uk/distributor/dist_home_01.shtml

Failing that, contact martin.grennall@audionote.co.uk  (if he can help, he will).

Thanks for relaying your experience so far Ben.

Does that same dealer stock Harbeth Super HL5?  They would give similar presentation to the P3's, but more of everything.

A friend of mine recently bought the Arrows and hooked them up to his Sugden pre/power combo and now unfortunately can't wait to get rid of them.

Look forward to your next installment.

Mac

All the Totem speakers I've heard, sounded a little "shouty".