[EDITED BY MODS and user banned again]
i don't have to look at the big picture. Sorry!!!!
I don't have a business to take care of!!!
But some one do apparantly...
And he could have canceled his registation!
I will not write another line regardering this subject, sorry.
I will respect the thread theme onwards.
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When you say room filling sound, do you mean in general or from where you would normally listen? Also, how far do you sit from your speakers normally and where abouts are they placed in the room?
I would imagine that you would either need especially sensitive or large speakers and or a more powerful amplifier.
If listening from one side of the room with the speakers directly opposite on the other, you are probably in the region of 20 dB down in sound level from where the speakers are.
So if you are listening at 85 dB and using 1W to get that level, something like 128W will be needed at the other side of your room for the same level. This would be pushing your amp and endangering your speakers.
There are calculations that can be made to determine your requirements and it might be worth working out what you theoretically need before demoing, if only to discount certain equipment.
Edit: Your room size is unusually generous, particularly for uk house sizes and most hifi equipment has been designed to work in much smaller spaces.
Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts
So as usual, a mention of AVI ADMs results in pages of nay-sayers chipping in with irrelevant twaddle to try to dissuade people away from a top class product.
Did anyone actually notice what the OP said about my curve-ball suggestion? For those of you so blinded by your irrational hatred for a product you probably have never heard, the OP said,
"Thanks for the advice on all of the above - I will check out. Like you say, a real curve ball around the idea of going for active's but one I will consider."
That was back on page 2, where are we now, ah yes page 5.
Why are you all so scared about people moving from more traditional hifi to actives? For me it was enormously positive, just like it has been for many others. Our love of AVI actives doesn't diminish your love of your systems, does it?
Apple Lossless - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40 also ATV3 into AVI ADM 9T [my wife's system]
and Grado SR80i
It's your total inability to accept, let alone suggest, any other solution that is the problem.
Do you accept that there are better speakers than AVI?
To be fair, one cannot recommend speakers he / she hasn't heard.
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True, but one can suggest alternatives.
It's interesting that AVI sell mostly to the overseas market to people who haven't heard their speakers, so maybe belief is as important as the usual thing of "try before you buy".
FWIW. My reservations are not about quality / hatred / bias, but suitability for that size of room and budget....even the ADM40s have only one smallish mid/bass unit (all be it a quality one).
I just think the OP needs to be looking at something substantially bigger, with at least 2 x 8" bass drivers, to give greater definition and scale / amount of bass.
An Active speaker approaching that size will likely be very expensive, as each driver needs its own amp.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
Don't think it's active speakers that people have a problem with - just AVI active speakers.
Somewhat of a sideway, I know (though less so than the latest 3 pages), but what about the opposite? When is a room too small for speakers with lots of bass? Has that to do with the distance of the speakers to the listening seat, or to the front wall? Or is it just the cubic metres of air that are 'pressurized' by the speakers' bass output?
If anyone is interested, I asked Ashley, a while ago why AVI had stopped their trade subscription to PFM.
Iirc, he said he was fed up with paying AVI's money to a forum with a small clique of members who seemed to spend their full time and attention seeking to make derogatory and defamatory posts about him and AVI.
He therefore thought that it was a poor commercial investment, and decided to discontinue AVI's trade subscription to PFM, particularly seeing as the moderation did little to control the derogation and defamation.
Tony issued reminders of the overdue renewal fee, but Ashley, having made his decision, did not respond. Eventually Tony banned the trade account and marked it 'Bad debt'. Probably not the best way to handle the situation by either party, but there it is.
I understand Ashley's personal account with PFM is still valid, and I think he does post from time to time.
These are just my personal recollections of events. I'm sure that no-one who has followed the saga takes the 'bad debt' very seriously.
Once more, while Mr James drinks a glass of water, please.
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Relocated, please re-read your first post in this thread and consider the context in which you made it.
Do you agree with what I said earlier where I said that your first post in this thread comes across as off-topic advertising for AVI?
If you don't agree please say why. If you do agree, would you please like to apologise? And in future will you please try to refrain from making posts that come across as AVI advertising as this inevitably leads to other posters responding to it and to threads being derailed?
Quote = lindsayt, Compared to the real thing: actual bass guitars, bass synths and bass drums the ADM 9's do not have a rich and deep sound.
This is a false statement. One of the strengths of AVI loudspeakers, noted very widely by many users, is their realism and fidelity.
Quote = lindsayt, On bass transients, the ADM 9's have far more distortion than the sort of speaker I recommended earlier in this thread.
This is again simply untrue. Most of the speakers you favour are 'big old legacy' designs from the past. Technology advances in driver designs have made big advances. Particularly in the reduction of distortion. AVI are noted for pursuing the advantages of leading edge designs in driver technology.
By now, literally thousands of users have made their choice by purchasing, and attesting to the excellence and realism of AVI speakers. To suggest that this is the opinion of a few 'paid shills', is ridiculous.
JC with regard to low frequencies from bass guitars etc, the AVI website itself says that AVI ADM 9's are -6 db at 60 hz.
Now please look at this frequency spectrum chart: http://www.offbeat.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/eq-chart.pdf
You will note that bass guitars, pianos, tubas, synthesizers can all have significant frequency content well below 60hz. The fundamentals of male vocals can extend down to 60hz. The thump of kick drums is 60 to 80hz.
AVI ADM 9's start rolling off at 100 hz and are 6 dbs down at 60hz. In a large room at longer listening distances this roll-off effect will be even more pronounced due to bass frequencies being less directional and dispersing more with distance than upper frequencies.
In order to have a system with a genuinely rich and deep sound you need to have the lower frequencies in proportion to the higher frequencies at your listening position. If you start filtering out the lower frequencies you get a progressively thin and lean sound.
Oldric has already answered the point on bass transient distortion very well. Something I would add is compare 6.5" drivers in a small ported cabinet to the more purist design of two 12" drivers in a large sealed cabinet. The difference in bass transient distortion is easy to hear and would be apparent with the right labortory testing equipment.
If you JCBrum, or anyone else, enjoys the thin and lean sound of ADM 9's which becomes very thin and lean in a large room, and you enjoy the bass transient distortion of AVI ADM 9's then that is your prerogative. But for you to then go into complete denial that these exist, well that to me is just complete marketing poppycock. The sort of marketing poppycock that is annoying and is tantamount to miss-selling the product.
I don't think that's true either.
I don't think anyone has a problem with AVI active speakers in particular.
The problem is with the style and substance of AVI's PR and marketing.
Their products have always been received very favourably by both customers and press.
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