Right on brother! (at least I assume it's brother) ....tell it like it is!
I'm a Leprechaun from Proxima Centauri.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
Garrard 401, Thorens TD124, Lenco GL various models, Sony PSX 6750, Pioneer PL71, Denon DP-5500, Onkyo CP 80M, Trio KP 8080, Yamaha YP-D51 etc etc etc are all better than the LP12 / Grace in key areas.
I am familiar with some of those players and quite frankly think you are hopelessly wrong on this one, TD124 apart they do not come close.
I know you have certain views and many of them are interesting and informative but not on this one. Not going to argue so we will not fall out.
Think of it as an alternative realiity.....
The key areas I was thinking of were bass crispness and pitch stability, followed by midrange clarity.
I own a well serviced LP12 / Ittok / Troika.
I find that LP12's are great for Simon and Garfunkel's Mrs Robinson. Not so good for Bachman Turner Overdrive's Not Fragile, nor Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.
And of course, if you put a rubbish arm and a rubbish cart on a turntable and compare it to a worse turntable with a better arm and cartridge then it's possible that the worse turntable will sound better in those conditions. And also if you place a non-suspended turntable on a floor mounted stand close to your speakers it's possible that a suspended design would sound better. And if you're not in control of the demo, it's always possible that the demo's rigged.
And I don't fall out with anyone, just because they have a different view on a piece of hi-fi to me. That would be ridiculous. It would be like falling out with someone because they supported a different football team to me.
If you ever get an easy chance I'd recommend that you compare an LP12 against a good idler or direct drive, with the idler or direct drive being well isolated from the speakers, as well as having an arm and cartridge that is at least as good as the one on the LP12 you are comparing it against.
I was a dealer for more than 10 years, the 10 years previous to that I helped out in a dealership that I had a financial involvement with and in the 70s I paid for my university education working part time in Tottenham Court Rd and later in Wigmore St.
Other than that, I am not going to comment further.
We do so many shows in a row,
And these towns all look the same,
We just pass the time in our hotel room
And wander 'round backstage,
Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,
And we remember why we came.
I that case I can only say 'nahnu, nahnu, beghorrah'.
Origin Live Aurora Gold+Illustrious Mk2 arm+Zyx R100-02/Stello CDT200+Stello DA220 dac/Tom Evans Groove Anniversary phono amp/Tom Evans Vibe preamp/Linear A power amp/Acoustic Zen Adagios/Chord cables/Oppo 105EU.
In that case I can only say 'nahnu, nahnu, beghorrah'.
I still love my marantz cd63se, wipes a lot of budget cd players away, I love all that jitter adds to the musicality.
I still love my marantz cd63se
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Musicraft (Derby), Specialist Hi-Fi/AV & Multimedia Dealer
good accurate audio monitoring and good sound reproduction to all
lack of musicality and timing
Could someone explain to me what a a component that 'lacks musicality and timing' actually sounds like?
It means: I didn't like it
Thanks yes a good player.
I am not sure if anyone remembers the dm series of B&W. I have the B&W DM 330i and 110i. Lovely musical speakers from the last 80's.
We modified the 330i to a hardwired crossover and biwired them, as well as braced the box. I compared them to the modern B&W 603 and it was more open and natural sounding. They have that nice magical natural midrange, the bass driver are two 8inch in sealed box, nice solid tuneful bass. I tried them on a friend linn sondek which really made them sing.
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