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Furtone's picture
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More power?

Hello everybody! 

I'm the proud new owner of a pair of Tannoy Revolution DC6Ts and an Arcam A19 using an rPAC and WAVs from my computer as my source until I figure out a slightly more convienient/elegant solution. 

I have a suspicion the A19's 2x50W output isn't quite enough for my Tannoys. For most 'normal' music the Arcam performs exceptionally well but I like to play a lot of dance music (drum and bass primarily) quite loud which I think is really putting it through it's paces and doesn't deliver the same kind of low end performance I enjoy with 'normal' music. I'd prefer it to be a lot meatier when it's being really pushed and can tell it's not been enjoying itself on the occasions I have tried, so I've been super careful since. 

My plan to overcome this is to bi-amp the Tannoys with an Arcam P38. Lows on the P38, highs on the A19 and I'm just wondering if this seems like a reasonable plan or if I've got it totally wrong and maybe if anyone has any experience of a similar setup? 

Thanks in advance Smile

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RE: More power?

i've never tried bi-amping. If your going to using the A19 for a pre-amp then won't the P38 have to power both the low and high frequency or can you slpit it as you say with both amps?

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RE: More power?

I wasn't going to use the A19 as a dedicated pre amp, I'd use it to run the HF input and then run the P38 for the LF input. Crossover would be in the speaker. 

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RE: More power?

But you do need a preamp stage, so presumably you 'daisy-chain' the A19 and P38, so that the A19 is doing preamp duty and driving the HF, and the P38 is driving the LF.

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RE: More power?

My plan exactly! The question is, will it deliver what I'm looking for or be a very expensive mistake?

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RE: More power?

Furtone wrote:

My plan exactly! The question is, will it deliver what I'm looking for or be a very expensive mistake?

The latter I'm afraid. Passive bi-amping, whatever the configuration, will not have a significant effect on the ability of the system to play loud.

The simple answer is to replace your A19 with a more powerful amplifier, a much more powerful amplifier.

Look for a minimum of 200 watts per channel to make a real difference.

 

it is just possible that for some reason the A19/DC6T is a poor combination and that a different amplifier of comparable rating will do a better job, personally I doubt it but others will be able to advise, my experience of the Tannoy speaker is very limited.

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RE: More power?

I use an Arcam Alpha 9/9P in a bi amp set up and find it makes a big difference over a single amplifier. I also listen to some dance music (techno etc) and bi amping really helps to get things under control, especially how the amp gets a grip on the bass.

This is from my own experience and can't say whether it would work for you.

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RE: More power?

 

Furtone wrote:

I have a suspicion the A19's 2x50W output isn't quite enough for my Tannoys.

Why don't you borrow something like an Onkyo TX-8050 stereo receiver/amplifier to hear for yourself what difference 100 watts per channel can make to the sound?

 

If you like to listen to music at anything above moderate volume levels then the extra power will be nessessary to sustain the full dynamic range at higher volume levels.

 

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RE: More power?

Furtone wrote:

Hello everybody! 

I'm the proud new owner of a pair of Tannoy Revolution DC6Ts and an Arcam A19 using an rPAC and WAVs from my computer as my source until I figure out a slightly more convienient/elegant solution. 

I have a suspicion the A19's 2x50W output isn't quite enough for my Tannoys. For most 'normal' music the Arcam performs exceptionally well but I like to play a lot of dance music (drum and bass primarily) quite loud which I think is really putting it through it's paces and doesn't deliver the same kind of low end performance I enjoy with 'normal' music. I'd prefer it to be a lot meatier when it's being really pushed and can tell it's not been enjoying itself on the occasions I have tried, so I've been super careful since. 

My plan to overcome this is to bi-amp the Tannoys with an Arcam P38. Lows on the P38, highs on the A19 and I'm just wondering if this seems like a reasonable plan or if I've got it totally wrong and maybe if anyone has any experience of a similar setup? 

Thanks in advance Smile

Its probably not the lack of power that you are noticing but the limitations of the power supply in the amp, as being fair, its an entry integrated. Bi-Amping is not likely to make a huge difference you would be better off getting a single 'better' amp (note, not always more powerfull) than two cheaper ones.

I doubt you are getting headroom problems unless you are hearing clipping which is unlikely.

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RE: More power?

I think the Arcam P38 costs about £1200 so is hardly a budget amp.

 

I would try and demo the P38 with your amp and speakers and maybe try some other amps like the Roksan Kandy K2 which is about £700.

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RE: More power?

steve_1979 wrote:

 

Furtone wrote:

I have a suspicion the A19's 2x50W output isn't quite enough for my Tannoys.

Why don't you borrow something like an Onkyo TX-8050 stereo receiver/amplifier to hear for yourself what difference 100 watts per channel can make to the sound?

 

If you like to listen to music at anything above moderate volume levels then the extra power will be nessessary to sustain the full dynamic range at higher volume levels.

 

Steve, the Onkyo is at best a 75wpc/8ohms amp Wink

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RE: More power?

BigH wrote:

I think the Arcam P38 costs about £1200 so is hardly a budget amp.

 

I would try and demo the P38 with your amp and speakers and maybe try some other amps like the Roksan Kandy K2 which is about £700.

I dont see the point, spend that £1.2k + the A19 cost and get one decent amp :?

The 'budget' was in reference to the A19, being an entry integrated amp.

 

For example, you could get a Denon PMA-2020ae for that and to be honest that could be all the amp you would ever need IME with the PMA-2000ae!

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RE: More power?

Well it all sounds a hell of a lot of money to me, if you go down the power amp. route I would look out for used ones which are often about 50% of new ones.

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RE: More power?

hoopsontoast wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

 

Furtone wrote:

I have a suspicion the A19's 2x50W output isn't quite enough for my Tannoys.

Why don't you borrow something like an Onkyo TX-8050 stereo receiver/amplifier to hear for yourself what difference 100 watts per channel can make to the sound?

 

If you like to listen to music at anything above moderate volume levels then the extra power will be nessessary to sustain the full dynamic range at higher volume levels.

 

Steve, the Onkyo is at best a 75wpc/8ohms amp Wink

It says 100wpc here: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/editorial/onkyo-tx-8050-a-novel-spin-on-streaming-systems

 

Either way it would be worth him borrowing an AV receiver for a few days to see if he needs more power than his current amp can produce. The Onkyo is just one example, there are obviously many other good choices from the likes of Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer ect.  Smile

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RE: More power?

steve_1979 wrote:

hoopsontoast wrote:

steve_1979 wrote:

 

Furtone wrote:

I have a suspicion the A19's 2x50W output isn't quite enough for my Tannoys.

Why don't you borrow something like an Onkyo TX-8050 stereo receiver/amplifier to hear for yourself what difference 100 watts per channel can make to the sound?

 

If you like to listen to music at anything above moderate volume levels then the extra power will be nessessary to sustain the full dynamic range at higher volume levels.

 

Steve, the Onkyo is at best a 75wpc/8ohms amp Wink

It says 100wpc here: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/editorial/onkyo-tx-8050-a-novel-spin-on-streaming-systems

 

Either way it would be worth him borrowing an AV receiver for a few days to see if he needs more power than his current amp can produce. The Onkyo is just one example, there are obviously many other good choices from the likes of Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer ect.

It tells you on the Onkyo website, 100w/8ohms "Dynamic Power" so I would guess thats around 75w at best. And that the aptly named A-9050 is quoted at 75w/8ohms.

The Onkyo quote of 130w is at 6ohms and 1% distortion and 1 channel driven, much the same as most AV amps that are quoted with one channel driven.

If he really wanted to try something with extra power, a cheap PA amp would do the trick, although could sound worse.

As I say, I would wager its the cheap power supply in the A19 that is causing the lack of 'headroom' rather than the lack of power, esentially.

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RE: More power?

hoopsontoast wrote:
As I say, I would wager its the cheap power supply in the A19 that is causing the lack of 'headroom' rather than the lack of power, esentially.

I would agree entirely with this. Power output is much misunderstood. 50W RMS p/c should be enough to fry your brains through 89db speakers, unless you live in the Royal Albert Hall. But if the amp can't deliver peaks cleanly and fully on demand, it's going to sound like it's struggling. But throwing just more Watts at the solution won't necessarily work.

The old Cyrus 1 I have knocking around in the computer room is only rated 25W p/c, but it's got a big power supply, and if you can listen to it with its volume past 12 o'clock playing loud music through average speakers then you're a braver man than me.

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