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stephennic's picture
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RE: Mains cables

MUSICRAFT wrote:

MadSquirrel wrote:

I'm running an Arcam AVR360, not a Krell! Smile

Hi MadSquirrel

I use a standard mains lead with my Krell FPB600 power amplifier  Smile

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi,

I put an upgraded mains lead into a rega apollo-r. It was clear to all of us listening the improvement in the sound - more open and detail. It was clearly better. Maybe you should try with the Krell, you might be surprised.

Cheers

Steve

 

 

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RE: Mains cables

CnoEvil wrote:

davedotco wrote:

Some years ago I was showing a 'budget hi-end' system at the Penta show. The system was modestly powered so I borrowed, from Isotec, one of their mid range power conditioners and 3 or 4 of their more modest mains cables.

Compared to stock cables and a regular 4 way plugboard the Isotec equipment offered a definite improvement, I was pretty cynical but I was impressed. The hazy, slightly gritty sound that I was hearing just disappeared and the system sounded at it's fluid, natural best.

Interestingly the results were not replicated outside the show, no reliable differences were heard.

My only thought is that the vast amount of audio and video equipment at the show was radiating all kinds of rubbish both through the air and through the mains and that the Isotec was doing a decent job of keeping most of it out, just a theory mind......

This corresponds with my own experience ie. This is all location (quality of power) and equipment dependent......so the results are far from predictable.

For me, this issue was all brought into focus when, as a dealer, I complained to a distributer about the annoyingly loud mechanical buzz coming from their big power amplifier.

To cut a long story short (ish) the amp went back and forward several times with the importer insisting there was no issue, perfectly quiet on their test bench. So I took a drive and went visiting, noisy amp in hand, plugged it in on their workbench and there was no noise, none whatsoever.

I was stunned and perplexed so having driven straight home I tried the amp in my home, dead silent. Back to work in the morning, plug in amp and, buzz............! 

It was the quality of mains in the shop, in the heart of the shopping district it was very poor, my home was fine as was the distributer who was, more or less, in the country. I have been wary of the quality of mains ever since, particularly if there is a lot of equipment about.

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RE: Mains cables

stephennic wrote:

Hi,

Maybe you should try with the Krell, you might be surprised.

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve

Why haven't i thought of that? Wink

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Musicraft (Derby) - Specialist Hi-Fi, AV & Multimedia dealer

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RE: Mains cables

davedotco wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

davedotco wrote:

Some years ago I was showing a 'budget hi-end' system at the Penta show. The system was modestly powered so I borrowed, from Isotec, one of their mid range power conditioners and 3 or 4 of their more modest mains cables.

Compared to stock cables and a regular 4 way plugboard the Isotec equipment offered a definite improvement, I was pretty cynical but I was impressed. The hazy, slightly gritty sound that I was hearing just disappeared and the system sounded at it's fluid, natural best.

Interestingly the results were not replicated outside the show, no reliable differences were heard.

My only thought is that the vast amount of audio and video equipment at the show was radiating all kinds of rubbish both through the air and through the mains and that the Isotec was doing a decent job of keeping most of it out, just a theory mind......

This corresponds with my own experience ie. This is all location (quality of power) and equipment dependent......so the results are far from predictable.

For me, this issue was all brought into focus when, as a dealer, I complained to a distributer about the annoyingly loud mechanical buzz coming from their big power amplifier.

To cut a long story short (ish) the amp went back and forward several times with the importer insisting there was no issue, perfectly quiet on their test bench. So I took a drive and went visiting, noisy amp in hand, plugged it in on their workbench and there was no noise, none whatsoever.

I was stunned and perplexed so having driven straight home I tried the amp in my home, dead silent. Back to work in the morning, plug in amp and, buzz............! 

It was the quality of mains in the shop, in the heart of the shopping district it was very poor, my home was fine as was the distributer who was, more or less, in the country. I have been wary of the quality of mains ever since, particularly if there is a lot of equipment about.

 

Not something any mains lead or RF filtering could fix, it's caused by a distorted mains waveform that generates a DC component on the mains. That causes the transformer to saturate, creating a mechanical buzz . The cure is to either use a DC blocker, which uses diodes and capacitors, or an isolation transormer. Mind you an Isolation transformer may also buzz.

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RE: Mains cables

stephennic wrote:

MUSICRAFT wrote:

MadSquirrel wrote:

I'm running an Arcam AVR360, not a Krell! Smile

Hi MadSquirrel

I use a standard mains lead with my Krell FPB600 power amplifier  Smile

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi,

I put an upgraded mains lead into a rega apollo-r. It was clear to all of us listening the improvement in the sound - more open and detail. It was clearly better. Maybe you should try with the Krell, you might be surprised.

Cheers

Steve

 

 

 

Expectation bias.

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RE: Mains cables

TrevC wrote:

stephennic wrote:

MUSICRAFT wrote:

MadSquirrel wrote:

I'm running an Arcam AVR360, not a Krell! Smile

Hi MadSquirrel

I use a standard mains lead with my Krell FPB600 power amplifier  Smile

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi,

I put an upgraded mains lead into a rega apollo-r. It was clear to all of us listening the improvement in the sound - more open and detail. It was clearly better. Maybe you should try with the Krell, you might be surprised.

Cheers

Steve

 

 

 

Expectation bias.

 

Sorry I dont thnk so, when one person who is an engineer who didnt expect any difference says wows and notices straight away , bigger soundstage with depth and hearing more detail. Smile

Cheers

Steve.

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RE: Mains cables

stephennic wrote:

TrevC wrote:

stephennic wrote:

MUSICRAFT wrote:

MadSquirrel wrote:

I'm running an Arcam AVR360, not a Krell! Smile

Hi MadSquirrel

I use a standard mains lead with my Krell FPB600 power amplifier  Smile

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi,

I put an upgraded mains lead into a rega apollo-r. It was clear to all of us listening the improvement in the sound - more open and detail. It was clearly better. Maybe you should try with the Krell, you might be surprised.

Cheers

Steve

 

 

 

Expectation bias.

 

Sorry I dont thnk so, when one person who is an engineer who didnt expect any difference says wows and notices straight away , bigger soundstage with depth and hearing more detail. Smile

Cheers

Steve.

Your engineer friend should know it isn't possible. Perhaps he doesn't want to upset you. Smile

 

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RE: Mains cables

well the one on my Sky HD Box is a nightmare the slightest movement and the cable falls out, I am assuming the fig-8 plug is not crimped enough to grip the pins or it is the quality of the cable or both, either way paying a bit more assures me that the fit is firm and tight, making a better connection, if your own leads are fine then thats good news, you can save your self a few quid... Dirol

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RE: Mains cables

TrevC wrote:

Not something any mains lead or RF filtering could fix, it's caused by a distorted mains waveform that generates a DC component on the mains. That causes the transformer to saturate, creating a mechanical buzz . The cure is to either use a DC blocker, which uses diodes and capacitors, or an isolation transormer. Mind you an Isolation transformer may also buzz.

Quite right, half wave rectification from 'old' style CRT televisions was the usual culprit, but I was making the more general point that mains quality does vary significantly in a variety of respects.

It was just that the episode with the buzzing amplifier brought it home to me in a big way.

On another occasion I was grappling with a dac, from a well known british manufacturer, that caused the system to sound harsh and hazy whenever it was switched on. I did not even have to be connected to cause this effect which occurred across all inputs of the system, even vinyl.

It was before the days of decent mains isolation systems and had to be cured by either changing the dac or the amplifier, most probably RFI, but if it was mains born rather than air born I do wonder if one of the isolating systems might have sorted it.

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RE: Mains cables

TrevC..could you please let me know what's your interpretation of spectation bias?

Main system: MF AMS 35i / Focal 1028be / Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP / MIT cables

Bedroom: Laptop(Qobuz) / Chord gem / Rega Brio-r / KEF ls50 / TQ black / Sennheiser momentum

 

 

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RE: Mains cables

Yawn @Trevc...

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RE: Mains cables

stephennic wrote:

 

Sorry I dont thnk so, when one person who is an engineer who didnt expect any difference says wows and notices straight away , bigger soundstage with depth and hearing more detail. Smile

 

You were listening harder the second time around in an attempt to hear a difference. 

If you both wrote down what you noticed after the change and compared notes with making any comment to each other first that would be more interesting.

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RE: Mains cables

MUSICRAFT wrote:

MadSquirrel wrote:

I'm running an Arcam AVR360, not a Krell! Smile

Hi MadSquirrel

I use a standard mains lead with my Krell FPB600 power amplifier  Smile

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

Hi Rick

I bet your FPB600 has its own power station attached to that power cord  :grin:

Cheers
Matt

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RE: Mains cables

MakkaPakka wrote:

stephennic wrote:

 

Sorry I dont thnk so, when one person who is an engineer who didnt expect any difference says wows and notices straight away , bigger soundstage with depth and hearing more detail. Smile

 

You were listening harder the second time around in an attempt to hear a difference. 

If you both wrote down what you noticed after the change and compared notes with making any comment to each other first that would be more interesting.

It was so obvious the difference, my friend now uses power cords Smile

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RE: Mains cables

I imagine his system would have sounded pretty unimpressive if he didn't have any power cords before :poke:

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