The problem with adding a sub in stereo is usually that the main speakers still play full range...
It's madness to me that in home cinema it's so common for a receiver to just cross over speakers at 40-80hz but it's seen as being rare/specialist in hifi. (Anyone knoow why?)
With regards to the minidsp I've never used it. Whats your source, is it a dac, cd player, vinyl?
I would say go to diyaudio.com and as there in the subwoofer forum, tell them your equipment including dac and they will tell you how to connect it. Not many here will be able to help with this specific thing.
Here's a link for the minidspp anyhow http://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp
Yep, I found that page, cheers. It would work perfectly. I use a Squeezebox/ Arcam CD7SE through a Beresford DAC and an Arcam A80 amp. So the Beresford would act as pre-amp and I could cross over around 60-80 Hz.
I used to use my Dalis in my AV system, and used them in "small" mode. That worked beautifully for music as the sub was taking everything above 80 Hz. The sound wasn't quite up to the standard of the Arcam, but wasn't far off.
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If you like the Dali's then I would find the cause of the issue.
Couple of possibility's spring to mind, firstly room acoustics/speaker positioning and secondly damping factor of the amp.
Issue? I think you misunderstand. The speakers sound great. But as I listen to a lot of bass heavy electronica, they can struggle at higher volume. That's a problem with most speakers I've heard to be honest.
In fact the only speakers I have heard that didn't were some B&W 800D. They looked at me and said "Is that all you've got?"
When crossed over via my AV amp, the sound is much clearer when playing such music.
So my options are a more "full range" speaker, or some kind of crossover and sub. (or both! )
Please and thank you would be nice.
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I used to have Dali Ikon 6 paired with A85/P85 Arcams. Lovely sound I agree, but the strength of both of these brands isn't in bass-heavy music. Beautiful with voice and for relaxing.
If you want more bass friendly, then as you say B&W will work well, as do ProAc (my Tablettes sounded great even though they were small they were very tight, made me want to dance around the room). Don't know about the floorstanders by ProAc unfortunately.
The Kudos I have at the moment are great, I listen to Ibiza Global radio all day on them.
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Cross them over to a sub or get bigger speakers...
The basic problem is the dali's you own "only" have 2x 6.5 inch woofers. Moving to B&W isn't going to solve things, unless you get the really expensive ones which suprise suprise have bigger bass drivers eg B&W 800. They have roughly 3 times the cone area, the bass drivers are not doing midrange and likely they have far far higher excursion......
You like the Dali sound so the Ikon 7 MK 2 would improve things a bit without much risk, you get a another woofer but it's not going to be THAT different, if 2x6.5 is really not doing it for you the 3x6.5's won't blow you over.
Maybe consider focal 948, midrange isn't coming from a bass driver so you can probably push the 2x8 inch woofers quite hard before you notice distortion.
The advantage with the brands I can easily audition is that I can borrow a pair for home dem...no questions asked.
I was tempted by the Magnepans, but it seems space may be an issue.
If you can get a pair of Magnepan 1.7s for a home demo, you can judge for yourself. Magnepan sells MMGW on-wall speakers. So I might have put it too strict ... Let's say they're less brilliant (soundstage; bass performance) the closer you put them to the wall. Only you can decide if the end result is good enough a compromise (and I guess an acoustic panel behind each speaker can reduce the problem).
If you have easy access, give them a try, they're rather special!
Heh. I do want to hear some, but they would need to be quite close at the back. And it would be a 600 km round trip
Wether you call that "easy access" is open for debate...
I read it as the amp isn't driving the speakers properly at higher volumes? Or that the speakers are eing overdriven but i presumed the former because of the amp you using. What i was getting at was with your limited availabilty to audition buying speakers may not the the answer...
Playing loud continuous music requires the amp to have headroom over the speaker giving the amp total control. When i used to run the Totems the amp i used output nearly 400 watts into an 4 ohm load and 500 in to 2 the result was huge spl's with headroom and only pushed to the brink did the Totems give in, the drivers used to touch.
More cones will give you better results but i'm using a single 5.5 inch driver in a room over 200m2 nd it will give me bass when its there. What i'm saying is that whatever speaks you use if you dont have the control at high spl's you never will.
Just to pick up on the sub, a good an idea as it is when you turn up the volume unless you have totally done away with the Dali woofer cone via mini dsp you will encounter the same problem at high volume in which case you could in theory stick a tweeter on top of the sub and run it that way discarding the Dali's. What you would end up with is a Bose system in another guise...
If you like the Dali's then adding a good quality subwoofer crossed over using an AV receiver seems like the most obvious choice.
Why don't you want any standmounts?
(The new ADM9's or Quested S7R's with the matching subwoofers would by my choice for under £3,000)
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Thanks for all the replies... (ok Craig??)
@Joelsim. I do like my bass, but I like it smooth and controlled. The Dali bass is great until the volume goes up...
@Shooter. I used to use a Lyngdorf SDAI 2175 into the same speakers (200 WPC into 8, 375 into 4), same problem at volume. I don't believe it's the amp. My old listening position necessitated the poweful amp, but where I am now, much closer, smaller area, doesn't I don't turn the Arcam past 40 usually and it remains stable untiljust shy of 60.
I am not sure I agree with your assesment of the miniDSP. The idea would be ti let the sub handle frequencies below 80 Hz. I have tried it with my AV receiver, and it works well. The Dalis don't struggle with high SPLs as they aren't trying to play back sub bass, which they can't.
Also, my audition possibilities are excellent. The local Hifi shop let me take a set home and try out, no probs...It's "range" I have a problem with. It's basically a few brands... But I do love the Dali duel tweeter sound, so I am hoping to keep that.
I would not use an AV amp, rather the miniDSP option for its filtering.
I don't want standmounts, mainly as I prefer the looks of floorstanders in a living room. And I personally find the AVI sub, rather ugly. I'd have one in my study area, no problem, but not in a living room, which is where I am looking to upgrade. The 40s would have been high on my list if they hadn't been cancelled after their first season!
Basically, I want WAF. A small sub will be fine if needed though. I would have been happy using my old MJA Pro 50, but it passed away recently ;(
Things may change. I am now eyeing the Mentor 8. They are over budget, but should provide ample bass. This system is more for relaxing. My ADMs plus excellent BK sub give me my serious bass.
Not really But I was seriously considering it for a leftfield solution. Weighing it up though I don't think I have the room ;(
Maybe loan a p38 bi amp the Dalis see if it improves it
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My interpretation of the best option is just to get the minidsp, get a sub (xls 200 or xls 400/sealed sub from SVS)
For the following reasons:
IF (I don't think this is the problem) the amp can't handle it then not having to deal with <80hz will increase headroom massively.
The speaker you like, you just don't want the bass to distort, it probably won't at the volumes you like given that it was fine when you used them in the home cinema.
It's the cheapest option.
All IMO - forget subs for real Hi Fi , they are too much a compromise. My money would be on a better amp
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Think tracls like Ageispolis (Aphex Twin) and Oi-1 (Biosphere) - They reduce small speakers into a shivering wreck at anything approaching high volume.
But why do you think subs are a compromise? Large full-range speakers are essentially a sub with a set of two-ways on top...
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