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List of possible upgrades, Plenty of time. But want to start the thought process.

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fr0g's picture
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Ok...

I moved house recently and my main 2 systems are currently...

PC, AVI ADM9T and BK XXLS400 sub. also using a Beresford 7520 DAC for the physical volume (sounds exactly the same).

Living room listening area. Arcam A80 amp and Dali Ikon 6. Squeezebox and Beresford DAC / Arcam CD7SE 

 

To be honest I am enjoying "listening" to the second system far more these days, and I love the Dalis. And in the place they are, the Arcam amp is doing a fine job. I don't need more.

I am however thinking of upgrading this system, or at least the speakers. Listening at night, low volume, they are sublime. But turn it up and some of my more bassy music makes the Dalis struggle.

So. What to do...? 

Priority...I don't really want stands, so other than wildly out of my range and Dynaudio Xeo, there is no active option.

I have no problem with passives. Value is not as good, but as I like my amp, then good passives would be fine. They will never be used at reference levels of volume...

 

I am considering the higher end Dalis (I love the sound), but also the Magnepan MG 12 or even 1.7. Would my amp suffice? Would I need a sub?

I reckon my max budget will be what I can sell my motorbike for in Spring, minus a grand... So at least £2000.

No big ugly subs (although I would consider something like the excellent Minivee)

As I said, no rush, it is only for investigative purposes for now...

 

 

 

 

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fr0g's picture
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etc

bah, can't edit first post!

Anyway,of course budget will include what I can get for my 6s AND vokal 2. So getting closer to 3k.

 

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RE: active crossover

I don't really know the best way of doing this but could you get stereo subs and cross them over, say at 80 hz (well above the tuning frequency of the dali's). You say you like the sound of the dali speakers so this may allow you to keep all the parts you like about your sound and improve it. Google minidsp, there may be a better option out there. Alternatively this should give you enough bass at reasonable levels without struggling...... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULL-OPUS-AUDIO-PA-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-RIG-HD-Ampli...

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RE: active crossover

alienmango wrote:

I don't really know the best way of doing this but could you get stereo subs and cross them over, say at 80 hz (well above the tuning frequency of the dali's). You say you like the sound of the dali speakers so this may allow you to keep all the parts you like about your sound and improve it. Google minidsp, there may be a better option out there. Alternatively this should give you enough bass at reasonable levels without struggling...... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULL-OPUS-AUDIO-PA-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-RIG-HD-Ampli...

Hmm.

Ignoring the bonkers link, 2 subs is not gonna happen. One small one maybe, and that would be enough, but it would require extra electronics.

But yes, the sound of the Dalis is excellent. It just struggles low down when the volume is above average.

 

 

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RE: List of possible upgrades, Plenty of time

fr0g wrote:
Priority...I don't really want stands, so other than wildly out of my range and Dynaudio Xeo, there is no active option.

Have a look at the Adam ARTist 6. Active floorstanders and IMO superior to the AVI ADMs. Adds to the ADM's strength with more low-end reach and a bit more (clean) sparkle at the top. About EUR 1,100 online from thomann.

Auditioning may be tricky as they are not exactly mainstream (why?!) but there are a few dealers in London that stock them. Where are you based?

 

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RE: List of possible upgrades, Plenty of time

johngw wrote:

fr0g wrote:
Priority...I don't really want stands, so other than wildly out of my range and Dynaudio Xeo, there is no active option.

Have a look at the Adam ARTist 6. Active floorstanders and IMO superior to the AVI ADMs. Adds to the ADM's strength with more low-end reach and a bit more (clean) sparkle at the top. About EUR 1,100 online from thomann.

Auditioning may be tricky as they are not exactly mainstream (why?!) but there are a few dealers in London that stock them. Where are you based?

 

Sweden.

I forgot about about those tbh.  Thanks for the shout. 

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DocG's picture
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RE: List of possible upgrades

fr0g wrote:

I am considering the higher end Dalis (I love the sound), but also the Magnepan MG 12 or even 1.7. Would my amp suffice? Would I need a sub?

I think you could get away with the A80 driving the Maggies (though they will sound better with more current). If budget allows, go for the 1.7 (massively better than the MG12 IMO).  If you're used to the bottom end provided by a sub, you will need one with the Maggies too, for sure. And IMO it'll have to be sealed, to play clean and fast. Maggies would need 3-4 ft of air behind them, as a minimum: to be taken into account too!

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RE: List of possible upgrades....

Arcam goes well with Kef and PMC, and I would also throw in Vienna Acoustics.
For subs, I like the Velodyne SPL 800 Ultra and Paradigm Seismic 110, though I suspect the Minivee will meet your needs for 2 channel.

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RE: List of possible upgrades

DocG wrote:

fr0g wrote:

I am considering the higher end Dalis (I love the sound), but also the Magnepan MG 12 or even 1.7. Would my amp suffice? Would I need a sub?

I think you could get away with the A80 driving the Maggies (though they will sound better with more current). If budget allows, go for the 1.7 (massively better than the MG12 IMO).  If you're used to the bottom end provided by a sub, you will need one with the Maggies too, for sure. And IMO it'll have to be sealed, to play clean and fast. Maggies would need 3-4 ft of air behind them, as a minimum: to be taken into account too!

Damn, that rules them out if it is important. ;(

 

 

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basshound's picture
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RE: List of possible upgrades

Think you should spend most of your budget on speaker and mains cables...... :rofl:   sorry couldn`t resist

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RE: List of possible upgrades....

CnoEvil wrote:
Arcam goes well with Kef and PMC, and I would also throw in Vienna Acoustics. For subs, I like the Velodyne SPL 800 Ultra and Paradigm Seismic 110, though I suspect the Minivee will meet your needs for 2 channel.

 

The problem I have is testing multiple speakers. There are 2 local Hifi stores and neither sell those brands. The advantage with the brands I can easily audition is that I can borrow a pair for home dem...no questions asked.

I was tempted by the Magnepans, but it seems space may be an issue.

If I change speakers to more passives, the first candidates I have in mind are Dali Mentor 6. As I said, I love the Dali sound, especially the sweet top end. I just need to somehow improve higher volume bass control.

I am wondering if spending the money on the best sub I can buy, and a miniDSP as alienmango suggested (keeping the Ikons) may be an option? 

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fr0g's picture
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RE: List of possible upgrades

basshound wrote:

Think you should spend most of your budget on speaker and mains cables...... :rofl:   sorry couldn`t resist

 

Ha Ha. (in a very ironic tone)

Smile

 

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CnoEvil's picture
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RE: List of possible upgrades....

Sorry, I didn't know what you had available.

The sub route should work if carefully integrated. The Velodyne I mentioned has built-in EQ, and is a very powerful wee beastie.

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RE: List of possible upgrades....

fr0g wrote:

The advantage with the brands I can easily audition is that I can borrow a pair for home dem...no questions asked.

I was tempted by the Magnepans, but it seems space may be an issue.

If you can get a pair of Magnepan 1.7s for a home demo, you can judge for yourself. Magnepan sells MMGW on-wall speakers. So I might have put it too strict ... Let's say they're less brilliant (soundstage; bass performance) the closer you put them to the wall. Only you can decide if the end result is good enough a compromise (and I guess an acoustic panel behind each speaker can reduce the problem).

If you have easy access, give them a try, they're rather special! beauty, eh

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MINIDSP (or alternative)

The problem with adding a sub in stereo is usually that the main speakers still play full range...

 

It's madness to me that in home cinema it's so common for a receiver to just cross over speakers at 40-80hz but it's seen as being rare/specialist in hifi. (Anyone knoow why?)

With regards to the minidsp I've never used it. Whats your source, is it a dac, cd player, vinyl?

 

I would say go to diyaudio.com and as there in the subwoofer forum, tell them your equipment including dac and they will tell you how to connect it. Not many here will be able to help with this specific thing. 

Here's a link for the minidspp anyhow http://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/subwoofer-integration-with-minidsp

fr0g's picture
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RE: List of possible upgrades....

DocG wrote:

fr0g wrote:

The advantage with the brands I can easily audition is that I can borrow a pair for home dem...no questions asked.

I was tempted by the Magnepans, but it seems space may be an issue.

If you can get a pair of Magnepan 1.7s for a home demo, you can judge for yourself. Magnepan sells MMGW on-wall speakers. So I might have put it too strict ... Let's say they're less brilliant (soundstage; bass performance) the closer you put them to the wall. Only you can decide if the end result is good enough a compromise (and I guess an acoustic panel behind each speaker can reduce the problem).

If you have easy access, give them a try, they're rather special! beauty, eh

Heh. I do want to hear some, but they would need to be quite close at the back. And it would be a 600 km round trip Smile

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