All things being equal, ADMs will consistantly sound the same.; the LS50s presentation can be made sound different, depending on the amp driving them....whether this is an advantage or a disadvantage is personal.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
I haven't followed all of this thread as it seems to have descended into the usual bashing. However I own ADMs and like them. And I find the LS50 very interesting.
If I wanted a similarly-sized passive speaker, with a similar, well thought-out engineering basis behind it, I would definitely seek out the LS50. Particularly as good power amps are not hard to find. The LS50 looks a particularly well-balanced design and I'm sure it will be easy to drive - so you can probably get away with a good quality AV receiver and have a terrific system
Why are you sure they will be easy to drive? Their sensitivity is 85db and their impedance drops to 3.2ohms. This makes it significantly more difficult to drive than, say, ATC SCM11s.
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
@ the OP: As you can tell by how this thread has gone, only you can determine whether the KEFs or AVIs are right for you. Most people have not heard both and even if they did it would just be their subjective opinions. Clearly both the LS50 & ADM9RS are fine products in their own rights, so you just need to find the one that is right for you.
Re: the overall AVI debate - Even ignoring whether you like the head honcho at the company or not, there are still some issues that cause problems for potential customers:
1) The claim is that the typical passive route is essentially audiophoolery and that buying a pair of AVI actives will break the cycle of upgraditis. That's straight up nonsense - there are many members of the AVI forums who have upgraded from one model of the ADM9 to the next and/or to the ADM40s. So the cycle has not been broken. So rippng on other HiFi companies about their upgrade paths is just hypocricy (especially when AVI customers are not discouraged from buying the whole AVI catalog).
2) The idea that in general actives are more accurate/just better than passives. While actives generally offer great (often better value for money), you only need to visit a pro audio forum or read user reviews on a site that sells pro monitors and you'll quickly see that not all actives are great. Pro users complain about monitors sounding distorted, overly bright, rolled off, bass shy, bass heavy, etc etc etc. Better yet go to a pro store and audition some monitors yourself, then you can say whether actives are just better than passives.
+1 Well said Ajani
1) I could never see why people think that active speakers cure upgraditis. It's just as easy to upgrade/change an active speaker as it is with any other piece of hifi equipment.
2) I agree that actives generally offer better value for money than passives do. It's also true that there are bad examples of active speakers which are too bright, boomy, bass light or whatever. However, many actives are voiced to have a natural balance and are measurably more accurate than passive speakers - although it's fair to say this style of sound reproduction doesn't necessarily appeal to everyone.
I should clarify my point: I'm not only refering to bad actives, but differences in user opinions on highly rated brands. Just like how audiophiles will debate whether Monitor Audio, B&W, KEF, Dynaudio etc sound good, bad, boring, neutral, etc etc etc. I see the same kind of debates about the pro audio actives like Genelec, Dynaudio, Mackie, KRK, M-Audio, Focal, Yamaha etc. One person will claim Genelec are the best actives, another will claim that the sound is hyped up to be exciting rather than neutral and hence poor for mixing. I've read pro audio threads asking for the best $1K active monitor, that read the same way such a discussion would go on WHF about the best $1k passive - lots of totally opposite opinions on the sound of each brand and no clear consensus on which brand is the best (or even good).
M-Audio USB Transit->Benchmark DAC1->Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm) / AKG K701
Or the cables?
Main: SqueezeBox Classic>AVI ADM40
Second: SqueezeBox Touch>AVI ADM9RSS
Yup, they might even tip the balance!
Are we talking on paper, or in practice?
David @Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, Coventry
PanasonicTX-P46GT30B..Yamaha RX-A1010...Music Fidelity M3i...OPPO105EU...KEFR100/R200C/3001SE/HTB2SE...SkyHD2TB...QED Copper Speaker Cable /HDMI/Analogue...PS3...IPAD2
Not really, ATM doesn't say what their nominal ohms are, but here are the specs - note the amp power requirements. In any event neither speaker are going to work well with a 40w amp are they??
Drivers :HF 25mm Neodymium, Mid/LF 150mmMatched Response :±0.5dBFrequency Response (-6dB) :56Hz-22kHzDispersion :±80° Coherent Horizontal, ±10° Coherent VerticalSensitivity :85dB @ 1W @ 1metreMax SPL :108dBRecommended Power Amplifier :50 to 300 WattsNominal Impedance :8 OhmCrossover Frequency :2.8kHzConnectors :Binding Posts/4mm Plugs, bi-wireCabinet Dimensions (HxWxD) :380x211x250mmWeight :8.5kg
Arcam Solo Mini/Monitor Audio RX1/Cambridge Audio 751BD/Samsung 37” LCD
I've tried some of the more expensive brands such as Derwent but I find that the basic Staedtler 110 Tradition cedar wood pencil with either a B or 2B grade graphite is the best for general use.
Don't waste your time on the ones that have erasers on the end because the pink rubber leaves a mark on the paper. You should use a separate eraser anyway, they're much better. Staedtler make very good erasers too IMO.
Hope this information helps with your exciting journey of pencil discovery atticus.
Big fan of the Staedtler myself; thanks for the info
At the moment what?
Doesn't say 'nominal ohms'?? You've listed the nominal impedance.
Both have the same sensitivity. Both have the same nominal impedance. LS50s drop to 3.2ohms as listed on Kef's website. SCM11s drop to 4.8ohms as per stereophile's measurements, first hit on google for ATC scm11 impedance.
Anyway, I wasn't particularly after a comparison, just correcting an assumption which was wrong and putting the true figures in some context given the misconceptions people have about various speakers.
Yes I see what you mean and I agree that even two reputable brands such as Adam and Genelec can sound very different to one another.
At the end of the day alot of it comes down to personal tastes and preference.
PC > AVI Neutron Five 2.1
Sony NWZ-A847 64GB Walkman > Westone UM3x
On that, we agree absolutely.
Onkyo TX-NR818 / Tannoy Revolution DC4 (bi-amped)
AVI Laboratory Series CD Player
No. I mean an active configuration is always better than passive (for any particular speaker).
Your statement is not true.
An active configuration is NOT always better than passive for any particular speaker.
For low level detail passive is ALWAYS better than op amp based active for a given speaker.
Are you aware of the THD+N distortion measurements for op amps over a range of power levels?
Even if true, this doesn't really affect the overall principle.
No one is saying actives are perfect Every speaker technology is flawed somehow, even electrostatics.
All academic when you're going to spend 800+ on either speaker - the truth is to get the best out of them you'll need electronics to match, and nothing less than 50w in either case.
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