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Broner's picture
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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

Broner wrote:

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

You'd better explain it then because if you're not talking about cables then you appear to be suggesting that the amp and speakers don't make any difference to the sound being created, which is an interesting point of view.

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

Given that decent digital replay is now fairly easy to achieve, the emphasis is, primarily on the amplifier/speaker interface and the the speaker/room interface.

A lot of speaker manufacturers make out that their products are easy to drive and that may be true by some standards, but the number of systems that I hear where the amplifier is clearly not in control of the speakers suggests that is not the case in the real world.

Even in this thread we see people complaining of the LS50 sounding brash or bright while others insisting that this is not the case.

Who is right? Well both parties of course, if you drive a speaker with an amplifier that is 'stressed' by the complex impedance variations around the crossover point then it, the speaker, can sound brash and bright, use an amplifier that can handle these variations and the problem disappears.

Similarly the fashion for inexpensive floorstanding speakers leads to the problems of bass boom that is common on these threads. Once again inappropriate amplification might be the problem but it is equally likely to be room positioning. Matching a loudspeaker to a room is not difficult but it is a skill that seems to be in pretty short supply these days.

 

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

The_Lhc wrote:

Broner wrote:

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

You'd better explain it then because if you're not talking about cables then you appear to be suggesting that the amp and speakers don't make any difference to the sound being created, which is an interesting point of view.

 

No offense, but I reread my comment and it is perfectly clear what I am saying. I am saying that it is clear that people very clearly hear differences between components even if hose differences are not caused by the different components (e.g. cables). This logic necessarily also applies to other components in the system because things such as expectation bias do not exclusively apply to cables. Hence, while people may feel they are improving or fine-tuning the system, each time they could also be the victim of the ways in which their brains mediate their experiences.

 

It makes me wonder to which degree people just keep fooling themselves over and over again. That is not to say that amps and speakers don't make a difference to the sound being created, but for a significant degree it makes me wonder how well people are naturally equipped to perceive differences. For cables there always is a discussion going on, but for speakers, because we know they can sound differently, people assume that the differences we hear are also differences being emitted by the system.

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

Broner wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

Broner wrote:

Ehhm, I got that Dave wasn't talking about cables. I think you misinterpreted my comment.

You'd better explain it then because if you're not talking about cables then you appear to be suggesting that the amp and speakers don't make any difference to the sound being created, which is an interesting point of view.

 

No offense, but I reread my comment and it is perfectly clear what I am saying. I am saying that it is clear that people very clearly hear differences between components even if hose differences are not caused by the different components (e.g. cables). This logic necessarily also applies to other components in the system because things such as expectation bias do not exclusively apply to cables. Hence, while people may feel they are improving or fine-tuning the system, each time they could also be the victim of the ways in which their brains mediate their experiences.

 

It makes me wonder to which degree people just keep fooling themselves over and over again. That is not to say that amps and speakers don't make a difference to the sound being created, but for a significant degree it makes me wonder how well people are naturally equipped to perceive differences. For cables there always is a discussion going on, but for speakers, because we know they can sound differently, people assume that the differences we hear are also differences being emitted by the system.

Yes, I got all that, I just don't see what it has to do with a case like this that clearly illustrates the problems caused with a serious mis-match between amp and speakers. We're not talking about a little tweak with a cable or anything like that.

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

The_Lhc wrote:

Yes, I got all that, I just don't see what it has to do with a case like this that...

If you read back you can see it is only a response to a small remark made by Dave. That's all.

The_Lhc wrote:

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

That would be a misinterpretation of what I said.

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

The_Lhc wrote:

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

CnoEvil wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

Me too, and, by and large, I am a cable 'sceptic'........ :silenced:

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

CnoEvil wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

It applies to everyone, not just to cable huggers ;). My own hearing is suspect number 1.

 

 

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

Broner wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

The LS-50s have been discussed many times on here and one of the recurring themes is that they require a decent amp to drive them properly but you seem to be suggesting that doesn't matter?

He's saying that if you can here a difference in cables, your view on everything else is suspect.........well that's me fffked!

It applies to everyone, not just to cable huggers ;). My own hearing is suspect number 1.

That makes me feel so much better!  Wink

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

I personally own a pair of LS50s and I truly believe they sound marvellous. Like a mini Kef Blade in my bedroom.

However, it took a lot to get right. I had to treat my room, get a new amp and a new loom of cables.

If it were up to me, I would tuck the LS50's under your arm and go to your friend's house (the one who owns the q1) and hook it up there. If the sound is still bad, then it is the LS50- it may be faulty or you simply don't like it.

If it sounds great, then you know that it is either your electronics or your room which is underperforming.

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RE: Thanks for all responses and

[quote=JoelSim

I wouldn't have thought that would make a difference, the Left and Right, that is.

[/quote]

Sure, it means your sitting behind the band instead of in front if it.  : )

Music Server -> Devialet 200 -> PMC Fact 8 -> Chord Cables

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RE: Thanks for all responses and

JoelSim wrote:

I wouldn't have thought that would make a difference, the Left and Right, that is.

Sure, it means you're sitting behind the band instead of in front of it.  : )

Music Server -> Devialet 200 -> PMC Fact 8 -> Chord Cables

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RE: KEF LS50 disappointment :(

I tried to read all the posts but the answer is very simple.. Take your LS50 into a KEF dealer and compare them to the R300.. or the R500 if you want to go with a floor stander.. the R300 do all the things the LS50 does.. but have more body and way more bass.. The New R series aren't quite as transparent as the LS50 but that won't matter to you.. trust me the R300 or the R500.. you'll be very happy..FYI I own R300 and compared them to the LS50.. I bought R300...

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Hi ErikM Glad you like the

Hi ErikM Glad you like the R300
I would be very interested to know what the rest of your system is please.

Regards Tonky

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