My silver digital coax matches the colour of my kit and makes for a more stylish overall presentation. I've not compared it to the free cable I got, but the free cable is black and looks like rubbish.
"Stylish overall presentation"? I thought this was about TELEVISIONS and CABLES. Good grief.
Whatever gave you that idea??? Next you'll be giving me a hard time about my firetruck red plugs on my mains cable
Or Ferrari red as I like to think of it. Makes it faster, don't you know
Observe the signature in its natural habitat.
No, I'm being dead serious, Subtle difference affect what is heard in a huge way - frankly I'm suprised you cannot accept how the different properties of cables will not have an effect on an electrical signal and that can be detected by the human brain - try that repeat play test and then think about what I said.
You have obviously never done any music mix or production or you wouldn’t come out with such a ridiculous statement as that. (Can’t wait to show the comment to the studios guys next week, they will be rolling all over the floor)
As to denying that cables sound different, you are denying that they don’t, hence it has no relevance to the post.
Enjoy whatever instrument you play
Er..yes I have and one thing I know, reverb, echo and doubling of voices happens no where in nature, so I don't know which studio you've been working in no artist , living or dead will sound live they way they'll sound on a recording certainly not as good etheir...well maybe cliff Richard would...but he's the only one!
Instruments sound different too as in a sound treated room/studio - room accoustics are dampend, removed from the final cut you actually get a cleaner sharper sound on a recording...some of you people, I swear.
oh...and me denying...no, I'm telling you a fact and I would be happy to come down your studio with a couple of interconnects and prove it to you and look in your face while you die of embarressment...seriously.
What "properties" are you referring to?
If there was any effect on the electrical signal it would be measurable. Measuring instruments far more sensitive than the human ear can't seem to find any differences.
There have been many blind tests carried out that show conclusively that even the most revered audiophiles can't tell the difference between cables.
The effect of expectation bias and the extremely transitory nature of human audio memory are accepted scientific facts.
By all means keep spending your money, just don't advise others to do the same. Let them spend it on what really does make a big difference - speakers.
What... you don't know what I mean by 'properties'
Seriously those tests you speak of....prrrft
As for the speaker thing, again its not the big changes in sound that makes the difference, its the small nuances - ask the reveiwers of WHF or any hifi person - by and large amps sound the same, cables sound the same its those tiny things that seperate the good from the great. No one suggest huge dynamic shifts will be made by interconnects or cables which is were you argument seems to be based.
seriously, sit down and listen - if you cannot hear differences ...I dunno what to say to you.
1. Try playing in a cave
2. That sounds change in different acoustic environments, has been known for centuries so I can’t see the relevance. (If cables do as you say then it will apply no matter what the environment)
3. If you can find me a scientific evaluation where users have been able to tell the difference between quality cables in a managed and controlled environment then I may look into it again, (As will all musicians, Studio and Film producers) until then the facts are that they do not make a difference.
Cables don't make a difference... it IS all snake oil..... nowa day's anyway... it is ALL zero's and one's.... not too sure tbh IF it was any different ?
People are easilly kidded on, always have been in many things.... sad but true.
Such a shame for all the folk who paid many a buch thinking they were indeed buying something that their money could buy more than lesser affording m,ortals.... lol,
so not true... going by all you can read now a days online ? (as far as I understand it all... same with speaker wires)
Mind you .....
Lounge : Samsung PS51E6500, Sony BDP S790, Virgin media XL with HD Sports Channels (BT &Sky), Yamaha RX-V673.
Tannoy Arena 5.1 with stands.(http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-and-av-speakers/tannoy-arena-96472/review)
Bedroom: Panasonic PX70 TV and a Sony BDP-370 Blu ray Player & Kitsound Boomdock. (quite superb for sound)
So far :)
relocated, I GUARANTEE that the difference between (for example) a copper cable and silver cable can be measured. Look in any materials reference book, and you will find electrical properties - normally limited to just resistance in most handbooks - but others exist, too. Changing the alloy of the materials will affect many properties (tensile strength, resitance to oxidation to name but two), but resistance is one that can very easily be measured using relatively simple and quite readily available equipment. Therefore, fitting cables that have a different material (metallurgical) content will have different properties. That is a fact (not my opinion) that is measurable. To claim otherwise is to dispute what scientists have known for many centuries.
Anyone with any knowledge of science would know that different metals have different properties. The measurements in question here are not of the properties of the cable itself but of the difference between what goes in one end and what comes out the other. The electrical signal. Cables do not carry 'sound' or music or anything else that you can hear - they carry an electrical current that is eminently measurable.
I guess this is a bit like arguing about the existence of God with someone who believes. There is no proof, science tells us it's not possible yet people will not be swayed from their faith.
I'll finish with a quote from a well known and pretty successful British speaker designer:
It would defy known physics if a length of speaker cable, no matter how short, long or expensive or of special material construction changed the signal passing along it without there being an measurable change. The ear does not have some super acuity beyond the capabilities of fine test equipment; if you know what to measure you can always - yes always - give rational explanation to what you hear. So, the logic is this: cable changes sound > cable must change measurable parameters. There are no exceptions to this. There has to be this logical causality. The sound cannot change without the measurement changing. For there to be an audible change in sound there must be a relatively huge change in measurement, because the ear is such a poor instrument that it needs a really massive change in sensory input for that change to be detectable by the electro/mechanical/chemical processes in the head.
To those proessional sound people who affirm that analogue interconnects don't make a difference and HiFi enthusiasts who affirm that they do:
YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT
Of course cables don't have intrinsic sonic qualities
However when you plug them into your equipment they CAN alter the characterisitcs and performance of the circuits in source output stages and preamps etc.
I would expect professional sound equipment to be robust enough to be imune from such interference. It is anoying that home HiFi gear appears not to be. My experience is that a cable upgrade solved particular and specific problems with the sound of my system, ie being able to hear detail in the lower frequencies; listening to the same few seconds of a CD over and over again with different cables. it was annoying having to spend the money but there you go.
Musical Fidelity A3.5 CD, A3.5 int amp and A5 FM/DAB tuner, Monitor Audio GS10s, Chord Chorus 2 and Odyssey 2
So why not just dismiss out of hand anything that doesn't support your argument. That's bound to win over anyone sitting on the fence.
You mean like a fourier analysis to seprarate out the sound of an individual violin from an Orchestra? I'd really like to see that!
Should anyone be looking for an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, this thread is a case in point.
Of course cables make a difference. Try connecting your speakers with a long length of bell flex and then compare with 4sqmm cable. Use unscreened lead for your microphone and see if it hums, use household flex for your S/PDIF connections and see how far you can run it before the DAC loses lock.
What is unlikely to make a difference are two speaker cables of the same cross sectional area, two S/PDIF cables using good quality 75ohm lead, two properly specified mains cables.
Engineering is rarely black or white, it is usually a compromise. Will changing your S/PDIF cable make a difference? - probably not, but there are circumstances where it could. Will changing a mains lead make a difference? - again, probably not, but there will be extreme circumstances where it may.
The problem for this forum is that most of the comparisons are between one perfectly good cable and another perfectly good cable, where it is very likely that there is no difference at all -which is why posters with technical backgrounds get hot under the collar at some of the nonsense posted.
- Just a point for the professional 'experts' who post about cable use in studios - there are reasons why it doesn't matter what cable you pick up off the rack and use - people like me specified the types of cable hanging on the rack and the input and output circuitry of the equipment so that you didn't have to worry about matching cables. Dont assume the spec of the cable doesn't matter.
What you say is spot on; sane and sensible advice.
I don't think anyone here is actually saying that you can use anything for any function, but we are talking home hifi, not data cable runs of 200 - 300 metres, (as I recently installed for an event - fibre optic if you're curious) the OP was specifically comparing two analogue interconnects costing £80 and £300. A decently made £5 - £10 job from the likes of Belkin will do just fine and the same applies to digital cable.
Thank you, 'pauln', for saving me the trouble of saying what you have just pointed out.
Apple Lossless - ATV3 - AVI ADM 40 also ATV3 into AVI ADM 9T [my wife's system]
and Grado SR80i
Tonight i was somwhat astounded at the difference my analogue cables make to my system.
I played around with chord cobra plus vee, chord chameleon silver and atlas titan. So ranging in the 80 - 300 quid bracket.
The cobra was very warm but lacked clarity. Chameleon was very good but the atlas was on another level revealing detail and clarity that just wasnt there before.
My quesion is will investing in a coax of similar quality bring similar benefits or is digital just 1s and 0s no matter what? I am currently using an ixos 105.
System is nait xs, ae radiance 3, squeezebox via rlink. Teddy or hicap dr maybe next.......
Im beginning to think i should have kept my mouth shut....
Just be aware that you are not alone..........it's just that those who believe in cables are inclined to stay clear, rather than be drawn into a fruitless polemic debate.
"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again." André Gide
Philim, the atlas titan does not seem to be available anymore? Do you know where you can buy it in UK?
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