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Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

Cloney audio got a big renovation a couple of years ago so have good facilities.

Seven oaks just moved recently so im not sure what their premises are like.

And Pete's is pretty much a large open plan shop. Most of the HIfi is downstairs in the basement where they have a big room with various stuff on show. 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?
80s boy:
david

just out of interest what amp(between£1000-£2000) would you choose if you had the cyrus cd6se and the atc scm11's like i have that would match.(made in heaven)


They tend to sound best with their own integrated amplifier, the SIA2-150, so look out for a second hand one. It's previous rrp was around £2,200, so you may very well see used ones for around £1,500 (and you may pay even less for it's predecessor). You can also look at the Naim Nait XS, although for just under the £2k you can get the 152xs/155xs pre/power, and the current special offer of the Cyrus Pre XP and Power.


I have been misquoted previously as I have never said that the SCM11's sound dull - I said the pairing of the SCM11's with the Kandy K2 sounds dull.


as i have the roksan k2 amp would not adding the matching power amp improve the overall sound quality?


Adding a power amplifier can't improve quality. It can improve control, it can open up midrange, it can make for a more effortless soundstage, amongst other things. What an additional power amplifier will give you depends on whether the power amplifier has been designed for the ground up and offers better power delivery and quality, or whether it is a carbon copy of the integrated amplifier with the pre-amp section removed. If the power amplifier has a better transformer or output stage than it's integrated counterpart, then yes, it will be a noticeable improvement in quality and power delivery. But if it's just an integrated minus it's pre-amp, benefits might be minimal.


Personally, I would say a Caspian is going to give better results than a K2 amp with a K2 power amplifier.


Like I've said before, you onl have to try the SCM11's (or any speaker for that matter) with an amplifier that properly drives them to realise how many entry level or underpowered amplifiers are not really up to the job.


 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?
MattSPL:

Cloney audio got a big renovation a couple of years ago so have good facilities.

Seven oaks just moved recently so im not sure what their premises are like.

And Pete's is pretty much a large open plan shop. Most of the HIfi is downstairs in the basement where they have a big room with various stuff on show. 

cheers matt , ill have to take a trip up to dublin soon , ta...
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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?
MattSPL:
If an amp has the power to drive a speaker, surely it has the power to control them? Are they not the same thing?


Unfortunately Matt, they are two very different things.


 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?
SteveR750:
No, This is most easily measured by damping factor, which is the back impedance that the speaker coil "sees". It's one thing pushing the cone to the point in space to correspond with a transient (which is what your watts or rather current is doing for a given volume/voltage), and another to stop it overshooting. Usually manifested as tight and tuneful


Unfortunately, damping factor varies at different frequencies, so it can only be a guide, not a definitive measurement.


 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?
FrankHarveyHiFi:
SteveR750:
No, This is most easily measured by damping factor, which is the back impedance that the speaker coil "sees". It's one thing pushing the cone to the point in space to correspond with a transient (which is what your watts or rather current is doing for a given volume/voltage), and another to stop it overshooting. Usually manifested as tight and tuneful

Unfortunately, damping factor varies at different frequencies, so it can only be a guide, not a definitive measurement.

 

SteveR750:
 Like al tech measurements though I doubt it's the only important parameter.

Yes I know :-) 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

EDITED BY MODS for House Rules

 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?
FrankHarveyHiFi:

MattSPL:
If an amp has the power to drive a speaker, surely it has the power to control them? Are they not the same thing?

Unfortunately Matt, they are two very different things.

 

 I realise its like BHP vs Torque - Watts vs current, but most well designed amplifier's of sufficient wattage(ATC recommends 50-300 watts) will be able to Control the speaker. Obviously if you want rock and roll volume level's, you need more power but that can be said about many speaker's. And some amplifiers won't gel as well as others do, but the point is, you don't need mega watts to drive ATC's.

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

I think this is where there is a huge misunderstanding. I've never said you need mega watts to drive ATC's - you just need a fair few to get them to sing as they're intended to....


 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

Personally I don't subscribe to the "they are so special they need something special to make them work properly" theory. It would seem that some amps work with them, and some don't; whatever their power or price, in just the same way that some amps sound great with some speakers and terrible with others. It's about system matching and your own ears. No disrespect to those in the trade, but I prefer to trust my ears than the opinion of sales people, and whilst the science bit which is undoubtedly only part of the 'story' is irrefutable; the rest however is merely opinion Smile

To the above post, 120W is in my opinion "a fair few", and yet they probably indeed don't make them "sing". I'll not argue against that as I have not heard them, but the sciencey bit doesn't make any sense: either they need watts or they don't! I suspect the real reason is a lot more complicated than that.

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

It is about system matching, and the ATC's need a little more careful matching than most speakers due to the fact they need more current than most to perform well.


I too trust my own ears, hence my recommendations AGAIN, EDITED BY MODS. I don't do it for fun! Smile


The current output of an amplifier is far more important than the power output. Watts per channel is a rough idea of how loud an amplifier is, and nothing to do with it's current output or ability to control speakers.


 

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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

I partly agree and partly disagree.

Watts = Current I x Voltage V

V=I x Resistance (or impedance)

 so watts output is important as it is directly related to current capability of an amp, however, the issue is how manufacturers measure power output and market their products. A poorly designed damp may indeed be capable of generating 100W into a constant 8ohm load, lets assumes a 20V setting resulting in 5A of current. Now if a passage of music comes along that coincides with a frequency where there is s dip in the speakers impedance to say 4ohms, then on order to maintain the same loudness of 20V a current of 10A is required. Not many amps are capable of double the power into half the impedance because of limitations in the power supply and output stage. My point is that power IS a valid measurement, so long as you know what it is at various loads (and most manufacturers quote power into 8 and 4 ohms loads so you get an idea). 


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Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

No problems there, but just because an amplifier states a rating into 4ohms, it doesn't mean A/ it is any good at driving and controlling a 4ohm loudspeaker B/ that the amplifier is actually capable of that 4ohm rated power output in the real world.


Almost all amplifiers will state a 4ohm power rating, but many of them couldn't drive a 4ohm speaker if their 230v lives depended on it.


 

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RE: Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

jaxwired wrote:

Have to disagree with the idea that ATC SCM 19s are "all arounders".  Don't get me wrong, I recently spent a few weeks with some ATCs and I was very impressed.   They are truly fantastic speakers and I can see why recording studios commonly use them.  However, the SCM 11s and 19s are down 6db at 54hz, and to me they sound like it.  The have wonderfully clean articulate bass, but it's underwhelming compared to some other speakers.  For a speaker to be a true "all arounder", it needs to be slighly more full range than these ATC offerings. 

 

I think better all arounders are Dynaudio Focus 140 & Excite 32,  MA RX6, Neat Motive 1 & 2, Totem Hawks & Forest, Usher Tiny Dancer, PMC FB1i & TB2i.  All these speakers are more jack of all trades than ATC speakers.  ATC speakers are more purposeful.  They are designed for extreme accuracy and neutrality, not for making everything sound good.  The speakers I've listed, work with almost any type of amp, and sound good with almost any recording.  Compare that to ATC which must be carefully matched with an amp and will make some recordings unlistenable. 

 

 

 

Again, I love the ATCs.  I think the SCM 11 easily competes with monitors costing double and even triple, but those monitors aren't "all arounders" either. 

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RE: Re: Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

FATS 2828 wrote:

jaxwired wrote:

Have to disagree with the idea that ATC SCM 19s are "all arounders".  Don't get me wrong, I recently spent a few weeks with some ATCs and I was very impressed.   They are truly fantastic speakers and I can see why recording studios commonly use them.  However, the SCM 11s and 19s are down 6db at 54hz, and to me they sound like it.  The have wonderfully clean articulate bass, but it's underwhelming compared to some other speakers.  For a speaker to be a true "all arounder", it needs to be slighly more full range than these ATC offerings. 

 

I think better all arounders are Dynaudio Focus 140 & Excite 32,  MA RX6, Neat Motive 1 & 2, Totem Hawks & Forest, Usher Tiny Dancer, PMC FB1i & TB2i.  All these speakers are more jack of all trades than ATC speakers.  ATC speakers are more purposeful.  They are designed for extreme accuracy and neutrality, not for making everything sound good.  The speakers I've listed, work with almost any type of amp, and sound good with almost any recording.  Compare that to ATC which must be carefully matched with an amp and will make some recordings unlistenable. 

 

 

 

Again, I love the ATCs.  I think the SCM 11 easily competes with monitors costing double and even triple, but those monitors aren't "all arounders" either. 

      Are the 19,s the best all rounder of the passive atc's ?

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