Is ATC SCM 19 speakers an all-rounder?

Are the SCM19s like Dynaudio speakers in that their large magnets "absorb" large amounts of current?

stever750

i cannot comment on the atc scm 19's but i can on the atc scm 11's and can say they are the best speakers ive ever owned i have the roksan kandy k2 amp & the cyrus cd 6 se same as you.

i don't find them dull as a certain retailer has commented yes i agree that you do have to turn the amp up more than you would normally but with these speakers being so neutral they can handle it also the amp has enough power to go to 3/4 on the volume and still sound bloody good without the amp & speakers struggling.

but this is my own opinion. no offence to anyone else's opinion 

regards  

80' boy  

80s boy:

stever750

i cannot comment on the atc scm 19's but i can on the atc scm 11's and can say they are the best speakers ive ever owned i have the roksan kandy k2 amp & the cyrus cd 6 se same as you.

i don't find them dull as a certain retailer has commented yes i agree that you do have to turn the amp up more than you would normally but with these speakers being so neutral they can handle it also the amp has enough power to go to 3/4 on the volume and still sound bloody good without the amp & speakers struggling.

but this is my own opinion. no offence to anyone else's opinion 

regards  

80' boy  

 

Thanks for the reply. Given the K2 has an apparently 'real' 120W at its disposal then I would expect it to be man enough, especially if the Cyrus 6 is thought to be capable. I auditioned the K2 against the Cyrus and Naim amps last year, and the Kandy was the most controlled of the three with the CD6SE up front, and certainly was capable of pushing the B&W 684 and Dynaudio X32s that we were using for the demo loudest of all without losing it. The volume control is not linear, so unlike a lot of amps max volume isn't achieved at 10 o'clock. I have regularly had the K2 at 1 o'clock which was generating moderate listening levels. Mind you by 3 it was getting well into asbo country...

steve i think it's man enough as well, i can understand people saying that the roksan/atc11 combo is boring as before i purchased the cyrus cd 6se i had an arcam cd73t and the sound really was boring but with the cyrus in place its almost like the roksan has woken up (i cannot really explain) but it like the roksan's gone right now ive got a decent source im gonna let the atc's do there business and sing.

ive had the volume at about 1 o'clock and your right the sound is most enjoyable at 3 o'clock it's like all of a sudden  there's a subwoofer in the room as you can really feel the bass  but it's still controlled, just as well ive got understanding neighbours as they have never complained. 

for the first time in years im really enjoying my hifi which i suppose is the main aim for us all.

regards 80's boy

80s boy:

stever750

i cannot comment on the atc scm 19's but i can on the atc scm 11's and can say they are the best speakers ive ever owned i have the roksan kandy k2 amp & the cyrus cd 6 se same as you.

i don't find them dull as a certain retailer has commented yes i agree that you do have to turn the amp up more than you would normally but with these speakers being so neutral they can handle it also the amp has enough power to go to 3/4 on the volume and still sound bloody good without the amp & speakers struggling.

but this is my own opinion. no offence to anyone else's opinion 

regards  

80' boy  

 

Hi 80s boy

Good post.

I hope you will not mind me adding the following to what you've said above. Many amplifiers are capable of partnering ATC's Entry Series passive monitors. As long as an amplifiers power is sufficiently potent then it will be fine. I will respectfully say there can unfortunately also still be some misguided views about the low efficiency of ATC speakers. The fact is the impedance of a speaker is far more important.

ATC's drive units are very constant thereby allowing an amplifier to deliver its full power all the time (prior to clipping). Some very efficient speakers have an impedance that can drop to a low levels such as 2ohms. At this level many amplifiers will struggle to deliver sufficient power or will give no power at all.

I have often over the years used a modestly priced 50w/ch amplifier to demonstrate all four of the Entry Series monitors. In fact recently one of my clients who recently bought a pair of SCM11's uses them with a fairly modestly priced amplifer rated at 80w/ch. His listening positioning is 8m away from the speakers. The reproduction from the SCM11's is more than dynamic enough for him not to use the volume control (if this really matters) more than a quarter of the turn.

You are right the SCM11's (and also the SCM19's) are not dull they are with they are flat and honest. The SCM11's (with the studio CLD mid/bass drive unit) in camparison to the SCM19's have a more 'rounder' feel to the sound whereas the SCM19's (with the significantly better lower distortion SLMT mid/bass drive unit) are alot more accurate.

Btw, i hope you will coninue to enjoy the performance of your ATC speakers for many years to come.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Steve, i cannot agree with Rick`s point, that every nice amp is capable of driving the entry atc models. A week ago we made a demo with my supernait, cd5xs, and Atc scm 20 towers, and 19 entry. Well the result was bad!

I like Atcs, the 20 towers are great speakers, i like the supernait too, and have listened great combos with it! But the match in my opinion, and my dealers, and the other guys that were there ... is a rubbish!

So, a demo i a must! Atc are great speakers, and with the correct amp they sound really good, but if i were you, i wouldn`t buy without a demo!

 See i was so keen on the idea of getting some scm 20 classics, but after the demo... not a chance!

Good luck!

Is 'misguided' a word we're using for someone who disagrees with someone else?

Due to real demos, I'm fully aware of how sensitivity and impedance affect amplifier/speaker combinations. Unfortunately, it doesn't always turn out the way you'd expect based on specs.

In my experience, the impedance of a speaker, relative to the driving amplifier has always been more of an issue than sensitivity.

I had a pair of speakers of 90db sensitivity and 6ohm impedance with 250watt power handling but with a low impedance point of 3.2ohm's.
I drove them with with an amp rated at 200w/ch @ 8ohm's and 400w/ch @ 4ohm's. Bucket loads you would think, but several times the speaker output fuses blew at high volumes, before the amp itself eventually blew. The amp in question wasn't rated below 4 ohm's, so high level listening with my particular loudspeaker wasn't wise. I learnt the hard way.

Another set of speakers of 89db sensitivity and 4ohm impedance, driven with a 100w/ch @ 8ohm integrated amp was useless even at low volume levels because the amp just didnt have the current capability.

And a pair of PMC DB1i's have a rated 87db sensitivity and yet cannot produce the same volume level at any given setting on the amp as a pair of 85db sensitive ATC scm19's. Both speakers are rated at 8ohm's. If you look at the specifications, the PMC's should play louder. But they don't.

People should be more concerned with impedance matching of speakers and amp's rather than getting caught up in sensitivity.
A wrong impedance match can cause an amp to run red hot or clip before you even reach 11 o'clock on the dial.

Having a so called insensitive speaker on the end of a modest amp may mean you have to turn the dial up an extra notch in some(but not all) cases, but if you have a nice 8ohm load like the ATC's, the amp's dial will turn further before clipping than a 4 or 6 ohm load, so you'll get the same or even greater drive ability from the given amplifier.  

Great post Matt

good post matt, ime speakers that have a low impedance are harder to control.  i know my cousins c.a.640 finds my 19s easier then some dynaudio audience 42s i tried to sell him a while back.  they nearly killed his amp.  i think atcs don't dip below 6 ohms, which is easy for most amps to deal with.

Have to disagree with the idea that ATC SCM 19s are "all arounders".  Don't get me wrong, I recently spent a few weeks with some ATCs and I was very impressed.   They are truly fantastic speakers and I can see why recording studios commonly use them.  However, the SCM 11s and 19s are down 6db at 54hz, and to me they sound like it.  The have wonderfully clean articulate bass, but it's underwhelming compared to some other speakers.  For a speaker to be a true "all arounder", it needs to be slighly more full range than these ATC offerings. 

I think better all arounders are Dynaudio Focus 140 & Excite 32,  MA RX6, Neat Motive 1 & 2, Totem Hawks & Forest, Usher Tiny Dancer, PMC FB1i & TB2i.  All these speakers are more jack of all trades than ATC speakers.  ATC speakers are more purposeful.  They are designed for extreme accuracy and neutrality, not for making everything sound good.  The speakers I've listed, work with almost any type of amp, and sound good with almost any recording.  Compare that to ATC which must be carefully matched with an amp and will make some recordings unlistenable. 

Again, I love the ATCs.  I think the SCM 11 easily competes with monitors costing double and even triple, but those monitors aren't "all arounders" either. 

I ran a couple of test cd's to set my sub up when i got my scm19's.

Various frequency sweeps and test tones.

Firstly, i played the tones through the scm19's without a sub. I did not have an SPL meter but i trust my ear's.

My scm19's will play 25hz and upwards when placed about 20cm off the rear wall. Obviously their SPL output at 25 hz isn't as high as further up the frequency range, but by the time i reached the 35hz test tone, the level was flat from there on up.

This was proved again by having to set my Rel Strata 5 sub at its minimum 16hz setting, this then allowing its 12db per octave crossover to gradually roll off the sub up into the 30hz region.

This can be tested by playing a familiar piece of music through the SUB ONLY. You will hear plenty of output at frequencies above where your dial is set. 

All I can say is get a pair of Dynaudio Contour S1.4s and do some A/B listening against your SCM 19s.  There is a dramatic difference in bass performance.  The contour specs say -3db at 40hz.  To me the Dyns sound rich lush and full and the bass is clean, not boomy.  The ATCs on the other hand sound reserved and controlled when reproducing bass in the 35hz to 55hz region.  I'm not knocking it.  It's excellent clean bass, but it's way off what I would call full rich bass performance.

jax, i think those speakers you mentioned are only allrounders if you don't mind them playing music the way they see fit, not the way it's actually meant to sound.

the flip side of your dyns, much as i like them (and i really do), is to call them overbearing and in your face.  accurate they are not.  in the end, personal preference comes into it, but i think atcs treat everything the same.

and as for bass response, no they are not as full in the bass as some speakers, they are too accurate for that, but out of the 600 albums i own, i'd say around a handful have bass low enough to suggest the 19s could do to go lower.

There is only one way if things are to be done accurately, but this proves that in the real world, we don't all like accurate. My point proven again that there is no one 'single solution'.

One thing I would add though, is that the likes of the entry level SCM range can only be as accurate as their budget allows - if this wasn't the case there would be no need for SCM100 etc. It's just that the ATC's are more accurate than others at their price point.

(for the record, I love the ATC speakers, with one exception, but I do appreciate that there are alternatives, hence, my comments)