Believe what Naim say, NO I would not, they are the ones that said you had to use 3.5m of Naim speaker cable with their amps otherwise they would blow-up. How much is Naim cable compared to K20?
Sadly this is still true.
From the latest Naim Integrated Amplifiers manual...
"Loudspeaker cables are vitally important. They should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is normally 20 metres although longer cables may be viable with some Naim amplifiers.
Some Naim amplifiers are designed only to work with Naim loudspeaker cable and using alternatives may degrade the performance or even damage the amplifier. Other Naim amplifiers can be used with any high quality loudspeaker cable although we recommend that Naim loudspeaker cable is used. Naim loudspeaker cable is directional and should be oriented so that the printed arrow points towards the speakers.
The Naim loudspeaker connectors supplied are designed to comply with European safety legislation and must be used."
I thought Naim had - in more recent years and with more recent equipment - modified this advice but they are still doing the old scare tactic.
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I have read that cable gets used to the direction of flow, so if you turn it around it will sound different but keep playing it and it will reburn in the opposite direction and after a while sound as good as before. On sheilded cables they may be a reason for the direction of course.
Audioquest FLX SLiP 14/4.
This has to be the worst moniker ever for a speaker cable... Sure it's good stuff but FLX SLiP? Hmmm...
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The reason why good solid speaker-supports can affect the sound is fairly easy to explain when you're talking about holding an electromagnetic transducer (speaker) as rigidly as possible with no resonance.. At the opposite end of your HiFi it's the same reason why turntable arms aren't made out of rubber.. Probably the only reason Kef (and others?) said they didn't work is because they didn't make any.
If we extend your beliefs further, then what about other cables, like mains cables, which also carry AC current, just like speaker cables? If I experiment with reversing all the underfloor mains cables to the sockets, will my microwave cook my dinner faster? Will my lights be brighter? Will my fridge cool things faster? Will my HiFi sound better?
You must know deep down that at a scientific level it's utter rubbish. But if it makes you a happy man, then there's no harm in it.
I was not going to mention main leads (kettle type), not an area I have gone into but the passion that goes into the discissions on the subject in other threads; '4ft of special mains cable makes all the difference'? I dont po-hoo the idea, cos I aint tried it . . . and probably never will, you seen the cost of a fancy kettle leads lately?
I did years of R&D on speaker stands MF, 1975 to 1980 before I came to market with the 'Foundation Classic'. Ask Dave Wren of Radlet Audio, how often I was in his shop with prototypes and modifications, if only it was that simple MF.
I believe even 'Naim' say their cable is directional, you going to argue with them? By the way, K20 speaker cable is the early Naim cable under a different name, Chebby I believe has the story on that?
How much is Naim cable compared to K20?
I have no idea BigH, but £5 a meter is enough for me on K20, which I have compared to TQ Black, sonicaly and directionaly. I cant remember how directional TQ was, no much as it would have registered in my mind if it was bad???? But sonicaly, the K20 was very, very close, close enough to make the almost x10 price differance unjustifiable.
By the way, K20 has better base response in the right direction, it is a very small differeance, one would suspect some systems may not register the small differeances? Some would even say it is so small that its not worth worrying about. Other cables I have tried register much bigger changes one way to the other, OF 500 strand for instance, in my system, has a very distinct 'tiz' in the high frequancies in the wrong direction.
We could go round and round on this, I'm not going to change my thinking that is based on practical experiance am I.
But did you run it for hours in the wrong direction? Say run it for 72 in wrong direction and then see how it sounds, then swop it round and see if its better or worse.
Which way is the 'flow' on an AC signal?
Top to bottom, s'gravity, innit.
HiFi / A/V / Bedroom
... it all comes down to practicality and ears.
I dont realy care, I know what I can hear . . .
.... Figures often dont match to what is a good sound to an individuals ears.
to be honest, you shouldn't really trust your ears. Here's some examples of how easily your ears can be fooled
so chances are, the only difference you are hearing is none, you're just subconiously telling yourself that you are, which being subconcious, would mean you aren't even aware of the fact.
i have searched high and low on the net, and not a single piece of real research into the directional aspects of cable. Most posts refer back to Naim, or to crackpot cable manufacturers who clearly have an axe to grind.
As Naim have (apparently) conducted tests on this, I will send them a note to enquire about their research.
Anyone suggest an email address?
I'm not dismissing your work on speaker stands: quite the opposite. I pointed out that science very easily supports (sorry!) the belief that they affect the sound of speakers.
It's not that I'm not open minded. There's load of HiFi 'wisdoms' I'm happy to tolerate (even if I'm not 100% convinced with a few) because I can at least kind of see the science (or pseudo science) behind it. Such as:
- speaker stands affect the sound of your speakers;
- different mains cables and mains treatments may affect the sound of your electronics;
- different (analogue) interconnects affect the sound of your electronics;
- different speaker cables affect the sound of your speakers;
- bi-wiring affects the sound of your speakers;
...but there's a few I will never buy into til the day I die, off the top of my head:
- different digital audio cables operating within specification and without data-loss or corruption still sound different;
- different HDMI cables operating with specification and without data-loss or corruption still 'look' different;
- turning my speaker cables round affects the sound.
Sorry mate. It's the way it is.
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I have no problems with any of it, I hear what I hear, I trust my ears when ever I make a change of any sort . . . therefore why not trust my ears when I turn cable from end to end and hear a differance. Cant see how one can be 'selective' over facts! . . . one fact is right the other 'fact is wrong' selective is not alowed in the world of 'demonstrated fact' . . . forget science and most of the time pseuod sicence, (technobable) sugestions in the brain??? who is proving what or kidding who?
Sit down and do some serious listening and evaluation, thats what counts for me. Them that 'wont try or wont hear' especialy when it dont cost anything, are the worse off for it in musical and hifi terms.
This statement from Naim makes no sense to me at all. They can't know the absolute phase of your system. You might have a phase inverting analogue stage in your CD player, or phono amp. You could have the + and - connections on your cartridge on both channels swapped over. You might have old speakers where the terminals aren't colour coded nor marked with a + or - but marked in some other way such as "ground" and "live".
Also the absolute phase of recordings will not be consistent. The recording equipment chain may well be phase inverting or it may not.
In other words Naim can't know the absolute phase that you will have in your speaker cables in your system. This means that at any particular instant on any particular recording no one knows if the electrical current in the cable in each particular conducting core will be flowing towards the speakers or towards the amplifier.
Also Naim don't know what plugs or connectors will be used and how well they will be attached to the cable and how good an electrical contact there will be with these at the amplifier or speaker terminals. They also don't know which conducting core will be labelled as the positive conductor and which the negative (or do they specify that for their dealers?).
In the light of all of these unknowns, I don't see how Naim can say that the system will sound better with the writing towards the speakers and not the other way round.
forget science... ok, then you may as well throw your stereo out, as it was science that made it possible. But don't let that get in the way hey
I've tried changing cable directions - nothing at all. No difference.
Conversely, have you tried the examples in the link i posted?
It's very easy to fool your ears. Too easy in fact....
I will stick to my guns...
You're firing blanks.
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