Have your say & ask the experts!

I can't stand my Marantz SA8004 anymore ... too slow, too boring ... can I tweak it? any suggestions?

14 replies [Last post]
CacáBr's picture
Offline
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 33

I have come to the conclusion that my CD/SACD Marantz SA 8004, though sounds rich, detailed, refined, is soporificaly boring, very, very bad in the timing department.

Tryed already some different power and interconnect cables, without result. And I must have played it more than 300 CDs, therefore the beast should be well burnt in.

The rest of the system: Naim Nait 5i, Rega P5 and Dynaudios DM 2/7, and It's important to say, obvious it may be, that I fell no slugissness whent listen to vinyl ... on the contrary.

Important to say also that I tried  it with a separete DAC, namely, the MOON 100Dac, with the same results, from which experience I conclude (I think  correctly), that the transport might be the problem.

I'd rather listen to CDs through my old and undestructable Pioneer PD 65, made in 1997! Oh!! So fluid and dynamic ... lots and  lots of PRAT, but ... you know ... It's a 1997 player ... so ... obvious limitations on other areas. 

Do you sugest anything but selling the damn thing? Any tweak?

(pardon probable mispellings ... my english is a  little rusty)

Thanks in advance!

plastic penguin's picture
Offline
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 15538
RE: I can't stand my Marantz SA8004 too slow, too boring

Timing cannot be rectified. If it times bad you can *maybe* smooth over the cracks a little...

Considering you have a Naim amp I would say the CD5i-2 would be the ideal partner. Alternatively Rega Apollo would match well with Naim and will retain some of the warmth but should add a little va-va-voom to the proceedings.

__________________

Amp: Leema Pulse; Source: Naim CD5i-2, Denon 260MKII, Pro-ject XP I; Speakers: PMC TB2i

 

Formerly known as plastic penguin

richardw42's picture
Offline
Joined: 2 May 2010
Posts: 1766
RE: I can't stand my Marantz I tweak it? any suggestions?

Can you not just keep the Pioneer ?

 

or demo stuff alongside your Marantz, in your own system. 

__________________

TV room : Samsung 60" plasma-ATV3, -AVI ADM40, DM5 in 4.0,/Sonos ZP90,, Sky using Sonos for On Demand, PS4, Sony BDP S570 thru a Yamaha RXV3067. 

HiFi : Sonos ZP90 - AVI ADM9 RSS + AVI SUB

Bedrooms : 2 x Sonos Play 3

IPad Air for Sonos & Spotify / AKG K551

Macspur's picture
Offline
Joined: 3 May 2010
Posts: 1890
RE: I can't stand my Marantz SA

Like PP, I'd recommend Rega, but if budget could stretch to Saturn, even better!

Mac

__________________

Accuphase E350 amp, Electrocompaniet EMC1UP CDP, Siltech 25th Classic anniversary 330I  XLR Harbeth Super HL5 on Sound Anchor Quod ELS63 stands, Chord Odessey2 SC.  Grado SR60I headphones.  HIFI RACKS Podium Reference rack.

CacáBr's picture
Offline
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 33
RE: I can't stand my Marantz SA

Thanks, a lot! I was suspecting timing issues were hard or, either, impossible to fix, and was really thinking of a Rega CD Player.

As to my Pioneer PD-65, I will certainly keep it, i just love it, but it doesn't have the refinement new machines have. After all, digital has evolved a lot since the ninities.

Thanks, again, you helped a lot!

BigH's picture
Offline
Joined: 29 Dec 2012
Posts: 3300
RE: I can't stand my Marantz SA8004 anymore

How about your Pioneer with a decent DAC? Have you tried that?

MajorFubar's picture
Offline
Joined: 3 Mar 2010
Posts: 3120
RE: I can't stand my Marantz SA

CacáBr wrote:
After all, digital has evolved a lot since the ninities.

In some ways it has, but to be honest, CD replay had reached maturity before the end of the millenium.

If you really like the sound of your Pioneer but you want to improve it, I'd try it with a separate DAC. Remember that newer isn't necessarily better. I know that's a difficult concept to accept when magazine's like What HiFi have a vested business-interest in convincing you otherwise.

__________________

Main system: Mac Mini 2011 • HRT II+ DAC • Lacie 3TB Cloudbox NAS • Marantz PM66 KI • EB Acoustics EB2

In storage: Thorens TD160 (no cart) • Cyrus 2 + PSX • Cyrus tuner • Technics SL-P777 • Marantz CD63KIS • Nakamichi DR-1

Inter_Voice's picture
Offline
Joined: 5 Oct 2010
Posts: 645
Marantz SA8004

CacáBr wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that my CD/SACD Marantz SA 8004, though sounds rich, detailed, refined, is soporificaly boring, very, very bad in the timing department.

Tryed already some different power and interconnect cables, without result. And I must have played it more than 300 CDs, therefore the beast should be well burnt in.

The rest of the system: Naim Nait 5i, Rega P5 and Dynaudios DM 2/7, and It's important to say, obvious it may be, that I fell no slugissness whent listen to vinyl ... on the contrary.

Important to say also that I tried  it with a separete DAC, namely, the MOON 100Dac, with the same results, from which experience I conclude (I think  correctly), that the transport might be the problem.

I'd rather listen to CDs through my old and undestructable Pioneer PD 65, made in 1997! Oh!! So fluid and dynamic ... lots and  lots of PRAT, but ... you know ... It's a 1997 player ... so ... obvious limitations on other areas. 

Do you sugest anything but selling the damn thing? Any tweak?

(pardon probable mispellings ... my english is a  little rusty)

Thanks in advance!

I think you can improve the SQ but at a cost.  Someone can do it for you  Tongue if you don't want to change the player.

http://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/marantz_sa7003.html

__________________

Enjoying music from a dream hi-fi system in a well treated room.

the record spot's picture
Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 9010
RE: Marantz SA8004

Doubt the Marantz has "timing" issues.  I have the SA7001-KI, and it's a very fine player.  Very neutral.  If a different DAC didn't do the difference, the underlying transport certainly isn't to blame.

__________________

 

Onkyo TX-NR818 / Tannoy DC4 speakers / Marantz UD-7007

AVI Lab Series & Marantz CD63 MkII KI CD players / various cables 

CacáBr's picture
Offline
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 33
RE: I can't stand my Marantz SA

BigH and MajorFubar, the PD65 usually goes with the Moon 100D Dac, which in fact gives the sound extra refinement. I mentioned that above to point out I prefer the PD65 even with its normal sound to the SA8004.

So, not only do will I keep the Pioneer, but also will die before it does ... perhaps even be buried with it excellent!

My problem is that I need another player to the main system, provided that the Pioneer belongs to the bedroom stereo, capishe?

As to the upgrade suggested, I don't love the Marantz enough to take such a leap. But thanks!

I guess I will sell it and buy a Rega or something.

Has someone own, like or already listened to the Arcam CD37?

Thanks Beer

 

 

CacáBr's picture
Offline
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 33
RE: Marantz SA8004

the record spot wrote:

Doubt the Marantz has "timing" issues.  I have the SA7001-KI, and it's a very fine player.  Very neutral.  If a different DAC didn't do the difference, the underlying transport certainly isn't to blame.

Thanks for the support. I myself took long to get to such a radical conclusion, but the fact is that I tried it with two different systems, and the sensation is always one of sluggishness. Not that the instruments and other elements of the music don't gel together, but one that the music doesn't get up and go, that it goes slower in tempo, that every musician is playing too relaxed.

But after all, it might be due to the lack of synergy with the other components ... or perhaps I am too accelerated, which would make everything else feel slower Smile

I really believe your Marantz doesn't have those issues, but mine does ... unfortunately. I belive also that's because your machine is a far better one, after all, it's an KI, a noble, an ambassador creature, belonging to another league. The comparison isn't fair.

Cheers.

plastic penguin's picture
Offline
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 15538
RE: Marantz SA8004

Too true - just because one model doesn't have timing issues that isn't necessarily a trait with all models from one maker. Some Arcams have timing issues while others are fine. Issues with timing is probably the most tricky to box around. You can't make a product that times bad become good.

__________________

Amp: Leema Pulse; Source: Naim CD5i-2, Denon 260MKII, Pro-ject XP I; Speakers: PMC TB2i

 

Formerly known as plastic penguin

the record spot's picture
Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 9010
RE: Marantz SA8004

Seeing as the 8004 is what would have been the KI model had Marantz not changed their numbering convention - the Pearl range being different as that line celebrated Ken Ishiwata's time with the company - the models stack up favourably.  What they don't have in some systems is a lot of bass, but that's offset by speaker or amp choices. I'd suggest the OP heard that first time round. The new DAC would've made little difference as the 8004 already has an excellent one.  The second time round I think the OP was influenced heavily by what he heard previously.

The timing thing is a red herring I believe. The transport may even be the same add the 7001-KI, not sure. Try a Harman HD990 or one of the early Exposure 2010s.  They'll carry more bass weight in their playback. Either that our change your speakers to really get the benefit of the 8004.

 

__________________

 

Onkyo TX-NR818 / Tannoy DC4 speakers / Marantz UD-7007

AVI Lab Series & Marantz CD63 MkII KI CD players / various cables 

CacáBr's picture
Offline
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 33
RE: Marantz SA8004

the record spot wrote:

Seeing as the 8004 is what would have been the KI model had Marantz not changed their numbering convention - the Pearl range being different as that line celebrated Ken Ishiwata's time with the company - the models stack up favourably.  What they don't have in some systems is a lot of bass, but that's offset by speaker or amp choices. I'd suggest the OP heard that first time round. The new DAC would've made little difference as the 8004 already has an excellent one.  The second time round I think the OP was influenced heavily by what he heard previously.

The timing thing is a red herring I believe. The transport may even be the same add the 7001-KI, not sure. Try a Harman HD990 or one of the early Exposure 2010s.  They'll carry more bass weight in their playback. Either that our change your speakers to really get the benefit of the 8004.

 

 

Thanks again. But I insist, this machine does have pace problems. It's not the bass it offers, which, in fact, is articulated and very well defined. It's a lack of flow, and the problem is not with the rest of the system, provided it  doesn't occur with tha other sources, not even with my old vintage tuner, which happens to be a Marantz.

Problably they intended to do this SACD as a mere taste of what the higher end can to, namely, the reference series, SA11, etc, but, doing so, they had to compromise something, and that something happened to be the rhythmic department.

Some people definetly don't find attack and rhythm precision and flow so important, but I do, I'm kind of rhythm freak.

So, the Marantz goes! I'm decided to sell it.

Thank you for all the opinions and support, you people helped me a lot to make a decision!

Cheers for all!

plastic penguin's picture
Offline
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 15538
RE: Marantz SA8004

As I originally suggested - given you have the Nait 5i amp the obvious choice would be Naim's own CD5i-2.

__________________

Amp: Leema Pulse; Source: Naim CD5i-2, Denon 260MKII, Pro-ject XP I; Speakers: PMC TB2i

 

Formerly known as plastic penguin