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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

Macspur wrote:

DocG wrote:

What is really difficult for a rookie as myself, is to find out where the amp is to blame or the speakers (or the synergy).

And I can't get over this 'volume thing': needing to crank a 240 Wpc amp up to get acceptable SPL through a 'SET-speaker'? :wall:  I checked the connections, but couldn't find phase issues.

I know what you mean about the volume issue... I had a similar experience when demoing some ATC SCM40's with ATC integrated.

Any news on possible demo with the Accuphase?

Mac

It's there, in Brussels, waiting for me.... But I want to hear it  through the Magnepans, head to head with the AMS. And I want to do a second shoot-out: Maggies versus the Avantgarde Zero 1; the latter is expected "for Q3 or Q4 of 2013". So I wait... No need to be captivated by the Accu if I decide to go Zero 1 after all ;).

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

CnoEvil wrote:

I find that the more I listen to Class A, the more intolerant I am of anything else.

Ever heard an Audiomat Opéra integrated, Cno? 30 Wpc valve amp in pure class A. This dealer has an ex-demo for sale. I haven't listened yet, but I'm not sure it's the bargain he claims it is, at €4000 (though it's got good reviews).

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

DocG wrote:

CnoEvil wrote:

I find that the more I listen to Class A, the more intolerant I am of anything else.

Ever heard an Audiomat Opéra integrated, Cno? 30 Wpc valve amp in pure class A. This dealer has an ex-demo for sale. I haven't listened yet, but I'm not sure it's the bargain he claims it is, at €4000 (though it's got good reviews).

Never heard of it, I'm afraid.

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we should let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines."  Nelson Pass

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

DocG wrote:

Weird detail was that I had to crank up the volume even higher (to 3 o'clock!) to get a moderate SPL. A 2 x 240 W amp firing up 90 dB speakers with a flat 8 Ohm impedance? These speakers were designed with SET amps in mind!

I'd be surprised if there wasn't something wrong with the set-up, e.g. the software settings of the D-Premier. It's said to be capable of driving difficult speaker loads with ease. When I heard the D-Premier + SHL5s, it went humungously loud without much twiddling of the remote. 

DocG wrote:

I think I'll go back to hear the D Premier with the big boys (SHL5, Guru Q60, Sony SS AR1), to hear what it is actually capable of.

Certainly worth giving it another go.

:cheers:

Matt

Hey, Eddie, can you lend me a few bucks / And tonight can you get us a ride? / Gotta make it through the tunnel / Got a meeting with a man on the other side

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

matt49 wrote:

DocG wrote:

Weird detail was that I had to crank up the volume even higher (to 3 o'clock!) to get a moderate SPL. A 2 x 240 W amp firing up 90 dB speakers with a flat 8 Ohm impedance? These speakers were designed with SET amps in mind!

I'd be surprised if there wasn't something wrong with the set-up, e.g. the software settings of the D-Premier. It's said to be capable of driving difficult speaker loads with ease. When I heard the D-Premier + SHL5s, it went humungously loud without much twiddling of the remote. 

DocG wrote:

I think I'll go back to hear the D Premier with the big boys (SHL5, Guru Q60, Sony SS AR1), to hear what it is actually capable of.

Certainly worth giving it another go.

:cheers:

Matt

I changed plans. I doubted giving this same amp another go with different speakers would sort things out for me. Especially since (should I buy it) I plan to use it  with standmounters anyway. So friday morning I called another Devialet dealer. I was lucky: he just had the 110 in since two days. Did he have demo time left this morning? Yep, so about an hour later, we met in his shop. The amp was running in already. We would use a Burmester CDP as transport (coax S/PDIF to the 110). Speakers were the B&W PM1s.

The 110 looks the business. The dark chrome is more distinguished than the 'plain' chrome on the D Premier. The remote, though still substantial, is more refined too. Functionally, both amps are basically the same. The 110's back panel is far more limited though, with less 'ins' and no 'outs' but the speaker terminals.

I suppose the D Premier I had heard last Wednesday must have had issues, cos this amp sounded gorgeous. It was very fluent and dynamic, fast, and thoroughly revealing and detailed. I never understood what a 'black background' was, until now: silence was really dead quiet! But most of all, it was engaging, musical (hard to explain, but that is what I missed with the BeoLab5s). I listened for about 1h 30' and kept hearing new details in very familiar music. The dealer then swapped the PM1s for a pair of Monitor Audio PL100s. The presentation was different, more refined, delicate, but maybe more stand-offish too; I had to grow into it, but kinda liked it.

The dealer, who was very skilled, as for his gear and as for music in general, then ran through the set-up program for the Wifi-streamer with me (the amp had just arrived and he had not done this yet). A few clicks on the website, SD-card in the laptop, then in the amp and done: child's play!

I could have stayed all day, but then a customer arrived, who had made a proper appointment (to hear the new Naim DAC), so I left. I felt high (like I had felt after hearing the Quad ESLs). I've got a crush...

PS: suggestions for good standmounters, that will do proper bass? Thinking of the Guru QM10two and the Neat Momentum 3i. Any other tips wholeheartedly received!

 

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

DocG wrote:

I changed plans. I doubted giving this same amp another go with different speakers would sort things out for me. Especially since (should I buy it) I plan to use it  with standmounters anyway. So friday morning I called another Devialet dealer. I was lucky: he just had the 110 in since two days. Did he have demo time left this morning? Yep, so about an hour later, we met in his shop. The amp was running in already. We would use a Burmester CDP as transport (coax S/PDIF to the 110). Speakers were the B&W PM1s.

The 110 looks the business. The dark chrome is more distinguished than the 'plain' chrome on the D Premier. The remote, though still substantial, is more refined too. Functionally, both amps are basically the same. The 110's back panel is far more limited though, with less 'ins' and no 'outs' but the speaker terminals.

I suppose the D Premier I had heard last Wednesday must have had issues, cos this amp sounded gorgeous. It was very fluent and dynamic, fast, and thoroughly revealing and detailed. I never understood what a 'black background' was, until now: silence was really dead quiet! But most of all, it was engaging, musical (hard to explain, but that is what I missed with the BeoLab5s). I listened for about 1h 30' and kept hearing new details in very familiar music. The dealer then swapped the PM1s for a pair of Monitor Audio PL100s. The presentation was different, more refined, delicate, but maybe more stand-offish too; I had to grow into it, but kinda liked it.

The dealer, who was very skilled, as for his gear and as for music in general, then ran through the set-up program for the Wifi-streamer with me (the amp had just arrived and he had not done this yet). A few clicks on the website, SD-card in the laptop, then in the amp and done: child's play!

I could have stayed all day, but then a customer arrived, who had made a proper appointment (to hear the new Naim DAC), so I left. I felt high (like I had felt after hearing the Quad ESLs). I've got a crush...

PS: suggestions for good standmounters, that will do proper bass? Thinking of the Guru QM10two and the Neat Momentum 3i. Any other tips wholeheartedly received!

Hi Doc,

Great write up! That sounds just like my experience of Devialet. Amazing transparency and purity, detail and dynamics, and yes, that "black background". The beauty of the Devialet for me is that it's utterly revealing  but also smooth.

It sounds like the 110 had no trouble driving the speakers. Is that right? I'd kind of written the 110 off, as the 170 isn't an awful lot more expensive and does, as you say, have more options and more power. But now I'll certainly give the 110 serious consideration.

As for speaker recommendations, i heard the D-Premier driving Harbeth SHL5s, which was sublime. The transparency of the Devialet marries well with the warm airiness of the Herbths, I think. I'd also like to hear the Neat Ultimatum XLSs.

:cheers:

Matt

EDIT: Ooh, look, my avatar has changed! Woof!

Hey, Eddie, can you lend me a few bucks / And tonight can you get us a ride? / Gotta make it through the tunnel / Got a meeting with a man on the other side

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

matt49 wrote:

Amazing transparency and purity, detail and dynamics, and yes, that "black background". The beauty of the Devialet for me is that it's utterly revealing  but also smooth.

I think that is what sets it apart: with all its 'objective' pluses, it stays natural and musical. I rate the ADH concept highly!

matt49 wrote:

It sounds like the 110 had no trouble driving the speakers. Is that right? 

Well, PM1s are not the easiest speakers to drive, and the 110 did that very well. It had a better grip on the bass than when I first heard the PM1s, driven by a MF integrated (can't remember the type), though that might have been a room thing too, of course.

matt49 wrote:

I'd kind of written the 110 off, as the 170 isn't an awful lot more expensive and does, as you say, have more options and more power. But now I'll certainly give the 110 serious consideration.

It's a human reflex, I think: when in a restaurant, don't go for the cheapest dish or wine. Being a bit more rational: the 170 has a better phono stage (but I don't have a TT) and ADC (but my only possible analogue source would be a FM-tuner, so not sure that would be worth it). The 170 has more inputs, but the 110 has more than enough for me (4 x coax S/PDIF (2 can be turned into an analogue RCA in), 2 x optical (one of which can be used as RS232), USB-B, RJ45 and wifi. The 170 has AES/EBU (which I don't need), a second analogue line in (ditto), a digital out (ditto) and a sub out (ditto). So for me, it would be €2000 for 60 W of extra power. Having said that, I haven't heard them head to head, so don't know the effect of the better D amp. But on the website (which apparently is refreshed this morning), it's stated that the sound of the three models is identical... Might come down to the choice of speakers.

 

On page 1 of the thread, hone_u2 called Devialet "the new Apple". I prefer a car analogy. Some prefer an Audi R8 (technically reliable and rational, B&O) or a Lambo (sheer performance, be it with a whirlpool in the petrol tank, the AMS). And Devialet is a Tesla (new concept, beats the others in about every aspect, the future!). [I'm allowed to be so unsubtle, I have a crush, as I stated earlier  Wink]

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

DocG wrote:

I think that is what sets it apart: with all its 'objective' pluses, it stays natural and musical. I rate the ADH concept highly!

TBH, my understanding of the ADH topology is rudimentary, but the results are pretty marvellous. Have you heard the NAD M2? Jaxwired on this forum is using one, and he's had some great kit over the years, so it must be pretty good, though one review I read said it was rather bright. I'm also interested in the new Wadia Intuition 01 (stupid name), which advertises itself as "class D+". I haven't been able to find out what this means.

DocG wrote:

It's a human reflex, I think: when in a restaurant, don't go for the cheapest dish or wine.

True, though often the middling models are the "sweet spot" in a product range (or indeed a restaurant wine list). Producers think they can get bigger margins at the bottom and top ends, because consumers are driven to the top and bottom by irrational motives. Also where fixed costs form a high proportion of a product's price, they tend to be proportionally higher at the bottom of a range. (It's certainly true of wine.) So models higher up a range can be better VFM.

DocG wrote:

Being a bit more rational: the 170 has a better phono stage (but I don't have a TT) and ADC (but my only possible analogue source would be a FM-tuner, so not sure that would be worth it). The 170 has more inputs, but the 110 has more than enough for me (4 x coax S/PDIF (2 can be turned into an analogue RCA in), 2 x optical (one of which can be used as RS232), USB-B, RJ45 and wifi. The 170 has AES/EBU (which I don't need), a second analogue line in (ditto), a digital out (ditto) and a sub out (ditto). So for me, it would be €2000 for 60 W of extra power. Having said that, I haven't heard them head to head, so don't know the effect of the better D amp. But on the website (which apparently is refreshed this morning), it's stated that the sound of the three models is identical... Might come down to the choice of speakers.

All very true. The sub out might be of interest to me further down the road, but as you say it really comes down to the amps' ability to drive speakers. It may be that the 170 provides greater long-term adaptability.

DocG wrote:

On page 1 of the thread, hone_u2 called Devialet "the new Apple". I prefer a car analogy. Some prefer an Audi R8 (technically reliable and rational, B&O) or a Lambo (sheer performance, be it with a whirlpool in the petrol tank, the AMS). And Devialet is a Tesla (new concept, beats the others in about every aspect, the future!). [I'm allowed to be so unsubtle, I have a crush, as I stated earlier  Wink]

Good analogy, and I fully empathize with your crush. :love:

:cheers:

Matt

Hey, Eddie, can you lend me a few bucks / And tonight can you get us a ride? / Gotta make it through the tunnel / Got a meeting with a man on the other side

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

matt49 wrote:

Have you heard the NAD M2? Jaxwired on this forum is using one, and he's had some great kit over the years, so it must be pretty good, though one review I read said it was rather bright. I'm also interested in the new Wadia Intuition 01 (stupid name), which advertises itself as "class D+". I haven't been able to find out what this means.

I haven't heard the M2 yet, nor the Wadia. You could add the Esoteric RZ-1 to the list of similar products (though this one also sports a CD/SACD transport).

Then again, my feeling is the Devialets give you more (the streamer! the upgrade path!) for your money. And the Esoteric doesn't do <4 Ohm impedances (don't know about the NAD or Wadia in this respect), where the Devialet goes down to 2 Ohm. Broadens the speaker choice (though ESL's are still no option).

PS: is that Dog49 in your avatar? I bet it has quite a character!

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

DocG wrote:

You could add the Esoteric RZ-1 to the list of similar products (though this one also sports a CD/SACD transport).

That's a new one to me (though I see it's been around for a few years). The TEAC website isn't very forthcoming about the nature of the amplification. Presumably digital.

DocG wrote:

Then again, my feeling is the Devialets give you more (the streamer! the upgrade path!) for your money. And the Esoteric doesn't do <4 Ohm impedances (don't know about the NAD or Wadia in this respect), where the Devialet goes down to 2 Ohm. Broadens the speaker choice (though ESL's are still no option).

I'm sure you're right about the Dev.

I know a dealer who stocks Wadia and Devialet. Could be an interesting comparison.

DocG wrote:

PS: is that Dog49 in your avatar? I bet it has quite a character!

Yes, Dog49. He's a bit of a handful, but you couldn't wish for a more loyal or affectionate hound.

Hey, Eddie, can you lend me a few bucks / And tonight can you get us a ride? / Gotta make it through the tunnel / Got a meeting with a man on the other side

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

matt49 wrote:

I know a dealer who stocks Wadia and Devialet. Could be an interesting comparison.

My Dev-dealer says it cannot compete soundwise - but then again, I'm not sure he sells Wadia, so he might be somewhat biased. So if you do compare them, keep me posted!

matt49 wrote:

DocG wrote:

PS: is that Dog49 in your avatar? I bet it has quite a character!

Yes, Dog49. He's a bit of a handful, but you couldn't wish for a more loyal or affectionate hound.

My parents used to have a cocker spaniel when I was a kid. Friendly with capital F, but a strong will of its own!

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

DocG wrote:

My parents used to have a cocker spaniel when I was a kid. Friendly with capital F, but a strong will of its own!

"A good labrador is born half trained; a good cocker dies half trained."  :wall:

Apparently the Devialet 170s have now reached the UK, with more expected at the beginning of next week. So maybe I'll be back on the demo trail late next week.

 

Hey, Eddie, can you lend me a few bucks / And tonight can you get us a ride? / Gotta make it through the tunnel / Got a meeting with a man on the other side

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

matt49 wrote:

DocG wrote:

My parents used to have a cocker spaniel when I was a kid. Friendly with capital F, but a strong will of its own!

"A good labrador is born half trained; a good cocker dies half trained."  :wall:

Apparently the Devialet 170s have now reached the UK, with more expected at the beginning of next week. So maybe I'll be back on the demo trail late next week.

 

Looking forward to your findings already... need something to pep this place up.

 

Smile

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

Macspur wrote:

Looking forward to your findings already... need something to pep this place up.

Smile

You mean the cable debates aren't enough for you? 

Wink

Matt

Hey, Eddie, can you lend me a few bucks / And tonight can you get us a ride? / Gotta make it through the tunnel / Got a meeting with a man on the other side

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RE: Holy mackerel! Devialet are trickling down!

matt49 wrote:

Macspur wrote:

Looking forward to your findings already... need something to pep this place up.

Smile

You mean the cable debates aren't enough for you? 

Wink

Matt

I know, I know, I'm never satisfied!

Embarassed

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