Have your say & ask the experts!

High Fidelity Streaming

81 replies [Last post]
davedotco's picture
Offline
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 2328
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Interestingly the recent 'buzz' is that with many modern dacs the difference is less noticeable, perhaps they are getting better at jitter and noise reduction?

 

__________________

We do so many shows in a row,

And these towns all look the same,

We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

And we remember why we came.

Jackson Browne

The_Lhc's picture
Offline
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 12575
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

davedotco wrote:
A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling:  Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Overdose's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 3135
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

I think a trip to listen to the AVIs would be worthwhile, even if to discount them if they are not to your tastes.

I also think that far too much is made of the differences between digital sources and I simply cannot believe any 'night and day' claims made for them. I have tried several DACs and all are much of a muchness, with function being the single biggest factor for the decision to buy.

 

__________________

Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts

Overdose's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 3135
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

The_Lhc wrote:

davedotco wrote:
A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling:  Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

 

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

That though, is another topic entirely (and one done to death already). Smile

__________________

Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts

The_Lhc's picture
Offline
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 12575
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

Overdose wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

davedotco wrote:
A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling:  Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

Overdose's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 3135
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

The_Lhc wrote:

Overdose wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

davedotco wrote:
A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling:  Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

 

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

Indeed.

__________________

Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts

jjgreenwood's picture
Offline
Joined: 6 May 2013
Posts: 14
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

The_Lhc wrote:

Overdose wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

davedotco wrote:
A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling:  Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

 

My TV and basic £200 beresford dac does. I have to say if the TV does I find it odd a lot of this high end hifi doesn't, and in some cases needs an expensive upgrade to make it compatable.

The_Lhc's picture
Offline
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 12575
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

jjgreenwood wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

Overdose wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:

davedotco wrote:
A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling:  Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

 

My TV and basic £200 beresford dac does. I have to say if the TV does I find it odd a lot of this high end hifi doesn't, and in some cases needs an expensive upgrade to make it compatable.

I don't consider Sonos high end, as much as I love mine, and I don't think any other player priced in the £2-300 pound bracket would be considered so either. It's a question of practicality, the nearest, cheapest competitor that supports 24-bit is Simple Audio's Roomplayers and they're double the price and use powerline ethernet rather than wireless. They also don't work.

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 1858
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

Overdose wrote:

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Bear in mind that many actives, including the AVIs, have limited RCA inputs. That means you couldn't use an external DAC, CD player, turntable, etc without a switching box.

How many inputs do you need and why would you need an external DAC when you have a perfectly good internal DAC/preamp?

The inputs shown below should adequately cover your concerns.

PS. Most active speakers have no inputs at all except for a pair of line level connections from a preamp or variable line level source, so depending on alternative choice of active speakers, a controller or preamp would be needed.

I see one pair of RCA inputs for a possible 3 devices. How is that adequate? If you use a DAC, you won't want to use the optical input, and the same for the CD player if you want to use its internal DAC.

Sorry, the AVIs are really intended for computer-based systems, particularly with a mac as source. That's why they don't have enough inputs for RCA.

Edit: They're also inadequate in that regard unless, like a mac, your computer has and optical output. Where's the USB connectivity? That's a big oversight.

And, of course, it's hard to find out whether the internal DAC is any good. Really, Ashley, some more RCA inputs and USB if you want to move away from the niche market Smile

DocG's picture
Offline
Joined: 1 May 2012
Posts: 913
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

The_Lhc wrote:

jjgreenwood wrote:

My TV and basic £200 beresford dac does. I have to say if the TV does I find it odd a lot of this high end hifi doesn't, and in some cases needs an expensive upgrade to make it compatable.

I don't consider Sonos high end, as much as I love mine, and I don't think any other player priced in the £2-300 pound bracket would be considered so either. It's a question of practicality, the nearest, cheapest competitor that supports 24-bit is Simple Audio's Roomplayers and they're double the price and use powerline ethernet rather than wireless. They also don't work.

Did anyone hear when the Bluesound stuff will hit the shops? Those should tick most of the boxes (provided they work, of course).

EDIT: found a drawback already: no Spotify.

The_Lhc's picture
Offline
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 12575
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

DocG wrote:

The_Lhc wrote:
I don't consider Sonos high end, as much as I love mine, and I don't think any other player priced in the £2-300 pound bracket would be considered so either. It's a question of practicality, the nearest, cheapest competitor that supports 24-bit is Simple Audio's Roomplayers and they're double the price and use powerline ethernet rather than wireless. They also don't work.

Did anyone hear when the Bluesound stuff will hit the shops? Those should tick most of the boxes (provided they work, of course).

EDIT: found a drawback already: no Spotify.

They're available in Scandinavia already, although from what I've read the early customers are being used as alpha testers (never mind beta), apparently they're very buggy and unreliable right now.

Overdose's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 3135
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

altruistic.lemon wrote:

I see one pair of RCA inputs for a possible 3 devices. How is that adequate? If you use a DAC, you won't want to use the optical input, and the same for the CD player if you want to use its internal DAC.

Sorry, the AVIs are really intended for computer-based systems, particularly with a mac as source. That's why they don't have enough inputs for RCA.

Edit: They're also inadequate in that regard unless, like a mac, your computer has and optical output. Where's the USB connectivity? That's a big oversight.

And, of course, it's hard to find out whether the internal DAC is any good. Really, Ashley, some more RCA inputs and USB if you want to move away from the niche market Smile

Why would anyone go and buy a separate DAC to use with the ADMs? That's like buying a Benchmark DAC1 Pre, plugging in an Audiolab M-DAC and then complaining that there are not enough analogue connections for a TT and  a CD player. Pointless argument to say the least.

The speakers have two optical and one analogue input, how they are used would be down to the owner and what equipment they had, but at any rate, I'd imagine the intended use to be for someone with a couple of digital sources and one analogue. It's a bit short sighted to assume that they are 'computer speakers'. Perhaps if the interest increases in the future, USB might be re-instigated, but that rather depends on demand.

And your last point (more of the first really) How many sources do most people have? I'd say that the majority of users needs would be catered for. If you have concerns regarding the amount of RCA connections, then clearly these speakers are not for you.

__________________

Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 1858
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

Overdose wrote:

Why would anyone go and buy a separate DAC to use with the ADMs? That's like buying a Benchmark DAC1 Pre, plugging in an Audiolab M-DAC and then complaining that there are not enough analogue connections for a TT and  a CD player. Pointless argument to say the least.

The speakers have two optical and one analogue input, how they are used would be down to the owner and what equipment they had, but at any rate, I'd imagine the intended use to be for someone with a couple of digital sources and one analogue. It's a bit short sighted to assume that they are 'computer speakers'. Perhaps if the interest increases in the future, USB might be re-instigated, but that rather depends on demand.

And your last point (more of the first really) How many sources do most people have? I'd say that the majority of users needs would be catered for.

First point: sound quality, there are better DACs. Second point, superfluous, though at least you accept it is limiting. Third point, Ashley you often mention using a mac/ipad device to stream. Last point: people have multiple sources, there's no getting away from that.

 

Overdose's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 3135
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

altruistic.lemon wrote:

Overdose wrote:

Why would anyone go and buy a separate DAC to use with the ADMs? That's like buying a Benchmark DAC1 Pre, plugging in an Audiolab M-DAC and then complaining that there are not enough analogue connections for a TT and  a CD player. Pointless argument to say the least.

The speakers have two optical and one analogue input, how they are used would be down to the owner and what equipment they had, but at any rate, I'd imagine the intended use to be for someone with a couple of digital sources and one analogue. It's a bit short sighted to assume that they are 'computer speakers'. Perhaps if the interest increases in the future, USB might be re-instigated, but that rather depends on demand.

And your last point (more of the first really) How many sources do most people have? I'd say that the majority of users needs would be catered for.

First point: sound quality, there are better DACs. Second point, superfluous, though at least you accept it is limiting. Third point, Ashley you often mention using a mac/ipad device to stream. Last point: people have multiple sources, there's no getting away from that.

 

Good come back. ohhh sure

Edit: I'm sorry I couldn't respond with more here, but my 'altruistic.lemon nonsense' filter appears to be blocked.

Normal operation to resume later.

__________________

Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts

John Duncan's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Jan 2008
Posts: 22531
RE: High Fidelity Streaming

Oh good, another one of these...

__________________

Cambridge Audio StreamMagic 6  |  751BD  |  651A  |  Diamond 9.1 | Minx Xi | Sonos Play:3

Moderator. mail: john.duncan.whf at the mail of g dot com