Have your say & ask the experts!

Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p!!! Is it amps or speakers......can anyone save me and give me music to my ears please?!

70 replies [Last post]
p_m_brown's picture
Offline
Joined: 1 Feb 2013
Posts: 301
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

Depends on your budget. Speakers will normally provide you with most significant tonal change and of course generally speaking, larger boxes mean more bass.

Perhaps if you can let us know roughly how much you would like to spend, fellow collaborators can offer relevant suggestions.

__________________

Synology 212j, Sonos Connect, Leema Elements Dac, Pro-Ject Debut, Arcam A38, Kef R100, Chord cables

69biscuit's picture
Offline
Joined: 26 Feb 2013
Posts: 16
RE: Not enough bass

Wiring all correct, pre amp to HF and power amp to LF, both are of SP1 binding posts and red/black all corresponding.

My living room is 5.4m x 5.0m.

What I don't understand is how by absolute chance, a friend can get a pait of speakers off ebay for £100, plug in borrowed old amp and it sounds amazing compared to what I'm getting, having researched hard and demo'd! He's managed to get the sort of sound I was after by complete fluke for absolutely nothing! puzzled

 

 

69biscuit's picture
Offline
Joined: 26 Feb 2013
Posts: 16
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

Little as I can at the moment, however sound is the important part so that will sort of dictate to a certain extent. For the time being I certainly can't afford to spend £1500, so maybe secondhand would be the answer. I'd wondered about Monitoir Audio GR20, RX6 and RS6? Also wondered about the REL T5 sub, but not convinced that's the answer as it won't fill the mids.

alimcd's picture
Offline
Joined: 7 Feb 2012
Posts: 32
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

The T5 over high level outputs may be just the ticket. Even a zero on high level (in the right place!) can be magical!

 

Awaits purist...

 

 

 

 

__________________

of Oxford Audio Consultants.

My opinions are my own and often frowned upon by my boss.

p_m_brown's picture
Offline
Joined: 1 Feb 2013
Posts: 301
RE: Not enough bass

69biscuit wrote:

Wiring all correct, pre amp to HF and power amp to LF, both are of SP1 binding posts and red/black all corresponding.

My living room is 5.4m x 5.0m.

What I don't understand is how by absolute chance, a friend can get a pait of speakers off ebay for £100, plug in borrowed old amp and it sounds amazing compared to what I'm getting, having researched hard and demo'd! He's managed to get the sort of sound I was after by complete fluke for absolutely nothing! puzzled

 

 

Well systems always sound different in different rooms due to the innate acoustic differences of every space. The size of the room, distance of the speakers from the wall, the distance to the listening position and the distance from that seat to the wall all make a huge difference.

Can you move your speakers slightly closer to the wall to help boost the bass? 

If you have suspended wooden floors, putting a concrete slab down for the speakers to rest upon can also help to make sure to don't lose any frequencies into your floors!

 

__________________

Synology 212j, Sonos Connect, Leema Elements Dac, Pro-Ject Debut, Arcam A38, Kef R100, Chord cables

matthewpiano's picture
Offline
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 8170
RE: Sell what you have for as

davedotco wrote:

Sell what you have for as much as you can get.

Visit a competent dealer and listen to some systems.

Buy the one you like.

 

Do not rely on others to choose a system for you.

 

I'm quoting this to bring it back to the OP's attention.  Its good advice.

__________________

Pro-ject Genie 3/Ortofon 2M Red * Philips CD840 (using optical output) * Marantz PM6005 * Dynaudio DM2/6

Qobuz Hi-Fi * Musical Fidelity V90-HPA * Sennhesier HD595

Overdose's picture
Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2008
Posts: 3321
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

Firstly, unless there is a fundamental problem with one of your amplifiers, changing them is unlikely to make the large difference that you appear to need.

Forget modding.

As suggested, check all wiring connections and double check, as something simple could well be the issue.

Failing all that, the integrated amp is plenty powerful enough for most hifi speakers, so you might be best to offload the speakers and power amp and then go on the hunt for a pair of speakers that you like.

Edit: I see that you have checked the wiring. Why not get the same system as your friends if it has the sound you are looking for?

 

__________________

Mac mini > AVI ADM9Ts

MakkaPakka's picture
Offline
Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 511
RE: Have I made mistake with Arc

The Arcam 10s must be something like 14 years old now yet still change hands for decent money second hand. That would not be happening if the amp was as lacking as you say.

 

Best thing to do would be to try some different speakers if you're sure everything works ok and you're not killing the sound with a 'bad' room. Swapping the amps should be the last resort.

 

 

 

ISAC69's picture
Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 676
RE: Have I made mistake with Arc

As a last chance try to change the cabel speakers to Tellurium Q black and the interconects to Tellurium Q black RCA they have the ability 

to strenghthen the depth, bass and soundstage .

http://www.inner-magazines.com/news/295/61/TelluriumQ-Black-and-Ultra-Black/

If it doesn't help you must change your components . You must demo before buying , don't buy

blind otherwise you might face a disappointment again ! 

__________________

Hi Fi : Proac Studio 140MK2 - Rotel RC1580 [PRE] - Rotel RB1582 [POWER] -Rotel RCD1520 [CDP]                   Headphones : B&W P7 . Cables : Tellurium Q Black [speaker cables] - Tellurium Q Ultra Black [RCA interconnects] - WireWorld Stratus 7 [power cords]  

AV ( 2.1 channels / Bypass mode )  : YAMAHA RXV767 [AVR] -  INFINITY PRIMUS PS8 [SUB]

 

drummerman's picture
Offline
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5023
rs......can anyone save me and give me music to my ears please?!

I think this has happened to most of us at some stage ... visit a cafe or a friend, they have a cheap system, maybe even some sony micro or whatever and it sounds musical and nice ... EDITED when it happens Smile

regards

__________________

Pretty ... and pretty proud of it

davedotco's picture
Offline
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 3020
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

Overdose wrote:

Firstly, unless there is a fundamental problem with one of your amplifiers, changing them is unlikely to make the large difference that you appear to need.

Forget modding.

As suggested, check all wiring connections and double check, as something simple could well be the issue.

Failing all that, the integrated amp is plenty powerful enough for most hifi speakers, so you might be best to offload the speakers and power amp and then go on the hunt for a pair of speakers that you like.

Edit: I see that you have checked the wiring. Why not get the same system as your friends if it has the sound you are looking for?

 

If you are determined to simply swap boxes in the hope of getting something you like, this is reasonable advice.

The reality is that you have somehow managed to aquire one of the least involving, least engaging systems produced in the nineties, the Arcam amps are smooth and refined, determined not to offend, for largish speakers the Chesters have little in the way of bass weight or punch and a lack of presence throughout out the rest of the range.

Though that might suit some people it is about as much use playing the kind of rock music that you seem to favour as it is possible to get for the money, it is really no surprise you don't like the results.

There are plenty of people on here that will recommend that you buy all the usual suspects, a Marantz this,  Monitor Audio that and all the other mid fi components that are currently flavour of the month.

Dare to be different, go to a dealer and try something that plays your style of music in an engaging way that lifts your spirits, don't worry if it does not conform to conventional wisdom, if it does not contain 5* products that are flavour of the month, buy something that engages you!

__________________

We do so many shows in a row,

And these towns all look the same,

We just pass the time in our hotel room

And wander 'round backstage,

Till the lights come up, and we hear that crowd,

And we remember why we came.

Jackson Browne

CnoEvil's picture
Offline
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 11994
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

davedotco wrote:

Dare to be different, go to a dealer and try something that plays your style of music in an engaging way that lifts your spirits, don't worry if it does not conform to conventional wisdom, if it does not contain 5* products that are flavour of the month, buy something that engages you!

Totally agree.

IMO. This is the key to success....where success is the enjoyment of music, rather than the acquiring of stars.

__________________

"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again."  André Gide

chebby's picture
Offline
Joined: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 15842
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

CnoEvil wrote:

davedotco wrote:

Dare to be different, go to a dealer and try something that plays your style of music in an engaging way that lifts your spirits, don't worry if it does not conform to conventional wisdom, if it does not contain 5* products that are flavour of the month, buy something that engages you!

Totally agree.

IMO. This is the key to success....where success is the enjoyment of music, rather than the acquiring of stars.

Good luck with that. Most hi-fi shops don't exactly 'dare to be different' either. (I am trying to stop using the word 'dealer' in favour of 'shop'. I don't buy beef from a 'meat dealer'.)

__________________

Marantz M-CR603 • Rega R3 loudspeakers • AirPlay • Apple iPad Mini • Apple iPhone 5 • Apple iMac • Apple AirPort Extreme 802.11N • Humax HDR-Fox T2 • Panasonic TX-L32D25B • Sony BDP-S390

CnoEvil's picture
Offline
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 11994
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

chebby wrote:

Good luck with that. Most hi-fi shops don't exactly 'dare to be different' either. (I am trying to stop using the word 'dealer' in favour of 'shop'. I don't buy beef from a 'meat dealer'.)

They do exist though..........

__________________

"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again."  André Gide

the record spot's picture
Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 9242
RE: Have I made mistake with Arcam 10 + 10p...

Rather than just jump in to a dealer, first have a think about what kind of sounds you like, then read up on what's on the market today. Bear in mind however that some think that a lot of today's gear apparently has a brighter sound to it.  

Were it my money, I'd keep the Arcam amps for now. You can always sell them later. The 10 was well rated in its day and it won't be rubbish overnight now.  There's ample power on offer, so I'll suggest you try and find a pair of Mission 751s.  This is a standmount model but could work very well with your amps.  I used mine with an Alpha 5 amp and they rocked.  The bass is not wanting from these, but that depends on how much bass you're after I guess.  It might be worth seeking a pair out. They come up frequently and a mint set will be around £100-150. You'll need stands too but they're £60 or so, or less if you buy used. Could be a good pairing with the 10s and they're as good as anything up to £500 on the market just now.

 

Do have a think about what you really want though as I doubt walking into a dealer's without doing some of your own legwork beforehand is any guarantee of success.  

 

 

__________________

 

Onkyo TX-NR818 / Pioneer S71-B speakers / Marantz UD-7007

Harman Kardon HD990, AVI Lab Series & Marantz CD63 MkII KI CD players / various cables